Learn melody or back-up?

Fred Rogan · Post by **Fred Rogan** » 24 Nov 2009 11:34 am

I have been playing (daily) for all of 6 months now and find myself on the horns of a dilemma. A lot of instructional material I have teaches me to play melody. Yet when I (attempt to) play along with my favorite country artists, I realize that what their steel player is doing (a lot of the time) is really this constant motion where they walk up and down between chords creating counter melodies and rhythms. I have copped some of those licks and am getting some insight there but I have seen nothing that teaches that and learning the melodies really seems like a dead end to me now. Learning melodies on the PSG reminds me of the books I ran across learning guitar 44 years ago that taught me to play single note melodies.
Comments, suggestions??

Michael Dulin · Post by **Michael Dulin** » 24 Nov 2009 11:50 am

I suggest you look into some of Jeff Newman's courses for help...Jeffran Music. Fran has back up and melody courses both. Good instruction on DVD with great insight and comments throughout by Jeff. MD

Gary Newcomb · Post by **Gary Newcomb** » 24 Nov 2009 11:51 am

I'm of a school of thought that says that that the melody is king. You should know the song, harmony and melody. Learn the melody and be able to play it in all positions. This will make your fills more relevant and your improvisations/solos much hipper.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 24 Nov 2009 11:51 am

I could suggest a course like Jeff Newman's Bandstand Backup. www.jeffran.com Teaches how to play professionally behind the singer which as you have discovered, is lots different than playing melodic instrumentals and solo breaks.

You'll need to work both ways as you have found. Good Luck.
[didn't mean to step on Michael's reply, guess we were posting at the same time.]

Fred Rogan · Post by **Fred Rogan** » 24 Nov 2009 12:07 pm

good suggestions - I had looked at the bandstand backup from Jeffran. I have some of his other materials and it is good stuff. Maybe Santa can bring that one.
thanks
fr

Don Hinkle · Post by **Don Hinkle** » 24 Nov 2009 2:13 pm

Hey Fred - you and I are in a similar boat. I 5am 45 years of age, playing lead guitar for decades - playing pedal steel about 4 months now. I also have been practicing every day - averaging 3 hours daily!!! yes, I am addicted.

Previously I was a rock player.
I started playing country guitar in the early 90's. I was learning (steeling) Brent Masons licks on all of the records being cut in nashville (Alan Jackson etc...).
So as a lead player, I was never a "melody" player. I think that it shows in my playing today. I am more of a lick player than melody. I can string licks together and make them sound impressive - but not a melody player none the less. I am fine with this by the way.

I am approaching the Pedal steel the same way. I have tried to get interested in learning melodies but its not in me. Throw rocks if you want but I am a "lick" or "phrase" player.

Here are some of the great licks that I have been steeling;
Josh turner - "your man" in F#. 3 verses of steel fills.
Let er rip - Key of E (not sure who does it) KILLER steel solo - full of riffs that I am storing in my bag o tricks.

Tracy Bird - "Love lessons" E - nice slow stuff

I just learning Brad Paisleys "welcome to future" Dey of "G" nice licks in there.

Feel free to email if you wanna share some learning material & ideas.

Thanks!
Don

Fred Rogan · Post by **Fred Rogan** » 24 Nov 2009 2:28 pm

Yep, definitely similar boats. I will check out some of your references. I have been playing Billy Courington's People Are Crazy over and over trying to cop some of Paul Franklin's licks. Got 1 so far and it (like a lot of PSG licks) sounds so good but is pretty simple.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 24 Nov 2009 2:29 pm

Why not learn both? It's good to know both ways of playing.

My golden rule, from my gigging days, was that, if the singer was singing, I wasn't playing

I only ever played fills, and usually shared the solo with the lead guitar player

Don Hinkle · Post by **Don Hinkle** » 24 Nov 2009 2:29 pm

I forgot to mention that one also.. I learned most of that song as well. I believe its in "F".

real nice subtle licks.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 25 Nov 2009 12:59 am

"Let 'er Rip" was Lloyd Maines. I believe he had some courses available.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 25 Nov 2009 9:14 am

You really need to know all three - melody, back-up, and licks. When you're playing by yourself, you can't do back-up. And when you're playing with someone who's covering the melody, your role is only supportive, so good back-up becomes mandatory. And on that rare occasion when you're asked to do a ride or intro, a few good licks (either your own, or someone else's) can separate you from those who can only play melody lines.

IMHO, they're really three different skills, and you should have them all.

Twayn Williams · Post by **Twayn Williams** » 25 Nov 2009 9:57 am

Great players will often quote the melody in some fashion when soloing.

I always like to "echo" fragments of the melody when playing "back-up" whenever appropriate.

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 25 Nov 2009 10:05 am

For those of us older players.....when steel guitar was really still in its infancy.......we didn't have a lot of choices; let alone, TAB.

Whether you liked Eddy Arnold or ROY WIGGINS, or not, Roy did a marvelous job down thro' the years, doing strong, melodic intro's, solo's in the middle and/or strong endings. MORE IMPORTANTLY, virtually all of his fill-ins behind Arnold's vocals were right on the mark. He had no one to copy. It was all his own creation.

JERRY BYRD is another. His back-up is absolutely second to none. His style may be old in the minds of some of you newbies HOWEVER, there is so much valid material there to be gleaned from any song on which Jerry played. There is a reason for everything he ever played.......nothing haphazard about it. His seemless melodies were not by chance either.

Back-up is a skilled art-form and shold not be discounted for a nanno second. It is far more than sliding the bar up and down the neck and smashing a pedal here and/or there. It's not merely hooking together a series of hot-licks that others have created in other songs.

If YOU DON"T FEEL IT..........chances are good you need to do more studying.[/b][/i]

Shaun Swanson · Post by **Shaun Swanson** » 25 Nov 2009 10:55 am

Listen to Big City by Merle Haggard. Mr. Hamlet completes the second part of the intro (which is bacisally the melody spiced up a little) Then he sits out for a while (creating space) and then comes back with a bunch of hot, yet quiet steel UNDER Merle’s voice. (counter point comping, or licks as you call it) I can’t think of a more tastefull steel recording!

Bottom line is, learn the melodies, and the harmony and the licks, and know when to sit out. It’s up to your taste what you use in a particual song.

Paul King · Post by **Paul King** » 25 Nov 2009 3:46 pm

I have been blessed to learn to play the melody as well as backup. If you want to work with a band, fills is a must. Too many musicians run over the singer and other musicians thinking they are really tearing it up. The singer is selling the song and we are to help by playing the gaps.

Don Hinkle · Post by **Don Hinkle** » 25 Nov 2009 4:22 pm

Lots of very good points from very experienced players here.
I have only played steel for right at 6 months or so but I have been a musician for over 25 years and there are some things that you just cant teach, and some people just cant learn.

Taste
Quality
Quantity
Judgment

After reading the posts in the thread I will have to say that my earlier post of learning "licks" vs "melodies could be more clarified.

I would say that playing back up phrases could also be interpreted as "licks" (as apposed to melody)unless you are mimicking or coping the melody.

My main point was that being interested in country music that has been written from today back to the 80's or so, I think that if you want to work, or sound like you fit in that music, you are gonna need to learn "licks". I couldnt be less interested in learning the melody to "danny boy" or "Crazy".
That new song "The more I drink" comes to mind. Quite a few of pretty basic "licks" but tastefully done all the same.

Bowie Martin · Post by **Bowie Martin** » 25 Nov 2009 5:18 pm

80% of what you do with a band will be back up.
10% will be kick offs
10% will be breaks when you get to play. The melody will always get you through.

Steel jams: Learn some instrumentals.

Decide where you want to be next?
With a band - work on the 80%
Which songs: work on kick offs
Breaks: learn the melody.

Just a thought from a very average player that plays 80-90 jobs a year in a very popular band area band.

Jeff Newmans courses: Worth their weight in gold...

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 25 Nov 2009 6:35 pm

1. Learn all the scales - these are the backbone of music.

2. The scales walk up or walk down will guide you into the melody and licks and fills will follow.

This is what I learned from all the time I spent with Jeff Newman - I have used them in hundreds of gigs!

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 25 Nov 2009 9:15 pm

Though many, if not most, steel guitarist hate to admit it, a steel guitar is primarily a back up instrument. In a country band, 90% of a steel guitar’s use is relegated to lead ins, fills, bridges, chords & wraps. A steel guitarist may be asked to do one, two or possibly three solos during a show or practiced routine but rarely more than that. The vocalist is the melody lead in almost all cases.

For the most part, 99% of vocalists have a terrible dislike for a band member who plays the melody along with him or her. At times however, a bridge or fill can include the melody or a run of chords that strongly resembles the melody; however, once the bridge or fill is complete, it’s back to being the back up.

The nightmare for the steel guitarist, is when you can’t play melody and the vocalist suddenly points to you to take over the melody!

So, in time, you need to learn to play both; or, swallow your pride and let the band know that you do back up and that’s about it. On a stage is not a place where you want to start making lemon aid.

Tommy Gibbons · Post by **Tommy Gibbons** » 26 Nov 2009 7:54 am

I can play the melody and do fills, etc, but I can't do the improvisation licks that come from nowhere. I want to so bad...I just don't know what's being played. Most lead guitars now thats all they do.

Please tell me!!! What are you playing if NOT the melody?

Thanks, Tommy

Michael Matthews · Post by **Michael Matthews** » 26 Nov 2009 9:46 am

hello fred, just read your post and all the comments and I don't have nothing to add, I agree with whats been said here as i am also a beginner allthough I've been in music all my life but on the steel about 3yrs this go around, tried some 20yrs ago at that time any help was hard to come by and now if you have access to the internet, wow a world of good people available to help an offer advice. I've learned more here with these guys in all my music experience, so just enjoy your journey and glad your on board, by the way, what part of alabama are you from I live in northeast in scottsboro and theres a few players around and we're talking about starting a little club{ if you will}when we get a time and place I will post it here on the forum and you will be welcome to come so keep on playing my friend, by for now....mike

Bill Bassett · Post by **Bill Bassett** » 26 Nov 2009 8:42 pm

Howdy,

Like you said, what the steel player is often doing is playing counterpoint to the melody. You know why? To make it interesting and musical. Imagine you are an entire string ensemble. You are a bunch of violins and cellos. Now write an arrangment that fits the song perfectly. The arrangment should enhance the melody, bring out the emotion of the lyrics and give the entire sound depth and character. It's often called 'sweetening'. That's what you do, you sweeten the rhythm section. You make it soar.

OK, now try this, you are an entire horn section. You are trumpets and trombones and saxaphones. You are in charge of punching up the song. You are the explaination points to the lyrics. You are the punctuation marks.

Some one wrote a song, now it's your job to punch it up and sweeten it. You are the garlic, oregano, paprika, ginger, curry, tabasco, cinnimmon, nutmeg or A1 sauce. Whatever that song needs to make it tasty. In short, you are the arranger. Now go out there and spice it up.

BDBassett
Rimrock AZ

Fred Rogan · Post by **Fred Rogan** » 30 Nov 2009 6:49 am

Guys, these are some interesting and illuminating posts. Thank you for sharing.
Being new to the instument it had occured to me that playing melody tab wasn't all that I needed to be doing. What you have shared with me in this thread definitely helps me to see what I do need to be working on.

Tommy Shown · Post by **Tommy Shown** » 1 Dec 2009 7:46 am

Fred Rogan wrote:I have been playing (daily) for all of 6 months now and find myself on the horns of a dilemma. A lot of instructional material I have teaches me to play melody. Yet when I (attempt to) play along with my favorite country artists, I realize that what their steel player is doing (a lot of the time) is really this constant motion where they walk up and down between chords creating counter melodies and rhythms. I have copped some of those licks and am getting some insight there but I have seen nothing that teaches that and learning the melodies really seems like a dead end to me now. Learning melodies on the PSG reminds me of the books I ran across learning guitar 44 years ago that taught me to play single note melodies.
Comments, suggestions??

There is a saying in recording that less is more. If you listen close to song on cd or radio, you'll notice the steel player will come in play a piece and then fade out and let some body else come in. Like the lead player our the fiddle. It also holds true when playing live with a band. I usually play along with the song when I am trying to learn it. but when it comes to working with a band or in the studio. I try not to play the melody line.

Derek Evans · Post by **Derek Evans** » 1 Dec 2009 11:00 am

Hi fred , Ilearned my basic steel playing off a bruce bouton tutor, and he says if you can play along with others .I.E A BAND .You will learn alot.I went out with a country trio for the experience, and found out one thing .dont overplay the steel. just a few fill- ins ,and a solo when required . regards Derek

The Steel Guitar Forum

Learn melody or back-up?

Learn melody or back-up?

learn melody or back up

Thanks Don

Some of my thoughts................

Back up vs Melody

Melody or Improvisation?

howdy neighbor

Here's one approach

thanks

Re: Learn melody or back-up?

back up playing