Tom Morrell's E13 technique on the E9 PSG ?

Peter Goeden · Post by **Peter Goeden** » 14 Nov 2009 12:14 pm

Your opinion please... How close could E9 pedal steel mimick the "sound" of E13 non-pedal (G# F# E C# B G# F# E D E - Tom Morrell's tuning)? Could a fourth pedal be use to get closer?

(Bottom line: I like both the Nashville, Bakersfield and MORRELL sounds but not sure if a single tuning/copedant can support all of these.)

Thank you! Peter Goeden

admin · Post by **b0b** » 16 Nov 2009 4:47 pm

I play E13th on 8 string non-pedal, and the only part of it that I can't get out of E9th is the adjacent string bar slants. All of the notes from those slants can be made with pedals, but it does sound a little bit different.

If you listen closely to e13th masters like Don Helms and Little Roy Wiggins, you'll notice that they almost never play the B and C# strings together. You can use your first pedal to chose one or the other - you don't really need a C# string.

Tom Morrell's tuning wasn't typical - most non-pedal players don't play 10 strings. The more common E13th for country music was (lo to high) B D E G# B C# E G#, which led directly to the early E9th pedal steels.

The fact that the 10 string E9th doesn't have a low E is another matter altogether. I don't know how much Tom Morrell used that low E, but I don't think it was an essential element of his style.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 16 Nov 2009 8:04 pm

I don't know how much Tom Morrell used that low E, but I don't think it was an essential element of his style.

I never understood why Tom Morrell wanted that low E on string 10. I can't see much value in having 1, 7b, 1 on strings 10, 9, 8... just my opinion, based on the styles I like to play. I have the Morrell tuning on my 10-string Alkire Eharp, except I changed that low E (string 10) to B. With B on string 10, the bottom 6 strings are exactly like E9 pedal steel guitar, which is very familiar, and the B seems far more useful than another E.

Dean Parks · Post by **Dean Parks** » 16 Nov 2009 9:39 pm

Doug and b0b

The one time I met Tom (since he played the 10 string fixed E13) was at the Dallas show, less than a year before his passing. I asked him what his tuning was, and he spelled it out, top to bottom, ending with, "... 10th string, low E... AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHY!!!"

So, not a big part of his melodic and chord stylings, but on his recordings, I've heard him use that string to bark out some short root notes.

My inkling is that, because he is a guitarist, he must have a low E !

Dean Parks · Post by **Dean Parks** » 16 Nov 2009 9:41 pm

And now a question of my own: what was the scale length of that little 10 string he used?

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 16 Nov 2009 11:54 pm

I met Tom... I asked him what his tuning was, and he spelled it out, top to bottom, ending with, "... 10th string, low E... AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHY!!!"

Wow, that's really interesting. So Tom didn't find much use for that low E either. Most lap steel tunings with a low root note have either a 5th next to it (power chord, root, 5) or a 3rd and 5th for a major chord. Morrell's low E is 5 whole tones below string 9 (D), and an octave below string 8, so it's not very useful in combination with those strings, as far as I can see.

[tab]
1 G# 3rd
2 F# 9th
3 E root
4 C# 6th
5 B 5th
6 G# 3rd
7 F# 2nd
8 E root
9 D 7b
10 E root
[/tab]

I tune string 10 to B, which makes more sense to me considering the other low strings. And strings 5 through 10 are now the same as E9 pedal steel guitar.

[tab]
1 G# 3rd
2 F# 9th
3 E root
4 C# 6th
5 B 5th
6 G# 3rd
7 F# 2nd
8 E root
9 D 7b
10 B 5th
[/tab]

Peter Goeden · Post by **Peter Goeden** » 17 Nov 2009 12:31 am

I'd love to pay

a fellow Tom Morrell fan to walk me through some of his licks (via CD?) I esspecially like his version of "Maybe you'll be there" on 'Relaxn'".

Johnny Cox · Post by **Johnny Cox** » 17 Nov 2009 8:01 pm

The first time I heard Tom play his version of E13th I asked him about the tuning. I went home and promptly put it on a guitar. It seems to me that Peter is asking about Tom's tuning and style as opposed to Uncle Don's and the others mentioned. Here is my take on Peter's question.
I recently combined the E13th and E9th tunings to arrive at what I have found to be the best (for me) tuning to have the best of both. The open tuning high to low is as follows.
G# F# E Eb B G# F# E B E
Though the low E is not a must it is nice to have and Tom did use it often. This requires doing some re-fingering on the E9th side of things but to me it is worth the work.
The pedals are the normal ABC/CBA depending on your set-up. Knee levers can be put in your normal configuration. The only real change is the lever that lowers the Eb string also raises the low B to D just like on a E9 / B6th universal. By holding this knee you arrive at Tom's E13th.
Another viable option is leaving the low E off and putting the D and B in the normal 9 & 10 string configuration. Then tune the Eb to C# and raise to Eb. In this case you have Tom's tuning open and you simply re-configure your fingering on the first four strings.
G# F# E C# B G# F# E D B
The normal knee lever that lowers Eb and D will now raise C# to Eb and lower D to C#. Weldon Myrick, Hal Rugg, Hank Corwin and I tuned the 2nd string to C# for years. Weldon and Hank still do. The more I look at it the more this version makes sense.
Chubby Howard has a knee lever in which he raises several strings to get a tuning close to Tom's but the fingering is difficult. I have found that it is easier to re-learn the fingering on the first four strings than try to grab those big power chords a string at at time. I currently have this tuning on the back neck of Curly Chalkers MCI the guitar that I put it on originally. When I am completely comfortable with it I will put in on my Jackson. Or have a D-11 built so that I will have the D B and E on the low end. Tom's tuning also sounds great with C6th pedals 5 6 & 7 and also lowering the high E alone on another knee lever. I had pedals on my triple neck E13th and you can hear that on the Time Jumpers Live CD that we did at the Station Inn during the first 5 years of the band, BJ/P.
Good luck Peter.

Peter Goeden · Post by **Peter Goeden** » 18 Nov 2009 7:37 am

Thanks for all the great info. My objective is to mimick as closely as possible Tom's technique/sound but on the E9 PSG...... I'm not experienced enough to know how much his technique relies on the E13 tuning and therefor if it's worth losing whatever advantages the standard Emmons E9 copedant provides.

(Bottom line: I like both the Nashville, Bakersfield and MORRELL sounds but not sure if a single tuning/copedant can support all of these.)

admin · Post by **b0b** » 18 Nov 2009 9:17 am

I think that Tom Morrell's phrasing was very much in the 6th tuning tradition. You can lower your 2nd string to C#, but the different string order will still affect the natural phrasing that comes out of your right hand. I'm not saying that it can't be done - I've played lots of western swing on E9th. You need to be aware of note selection and develop different patterns in your right hand to support that style.

Assuming that you lower your 2nd string to C#, you will find many lines with the string sequence 6 5 2 4, and grips like 6 5 2 followed by 5 4 2. These patterns are harder to play on E9th than on E13th. But all of the notes are there, and it is possible.

(Just as a side note, I can't believe that I'm having this discussion with heavywights like Johnny Cox, Doug Beaumier and Dean Parks!)

You might want to check out Herb Steiner's Swinging on E9th courses.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 18 Nov 2009 9:38 am

Though I don't have the album Peter mentioned, I did listen to cuts off the album, and I believe 98% of what Morrell is doing can be done without resorting to an E13th tuning.

While I do realize that some players tend to get hung up on certain sounds or voicings, I feel we should always keep in mind that the idea is to learn to play the instrument, and not just copy certain chords or sounds. If you want to learn those three types or styles of playing (Bakersfield, Nashville, and Western swing), it might be best to learn them in that order.

My2cents, anyway.

Peter Goeden · Post by **Peter Goeden** » 18 Nov 2009 6:28 pm

So if use the copedant suggested above and no longer have Eb on string #2 and RKR no longer lowers sting #2 to D/C#, what capabilities am I loosing?

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 19 Nov 2009 3:09 pm

I would not change your set up to be able to play Morrel licks. I would pick up a 10st lap and put an E13 on it to see if its worth the commitment. Go to Charleton and have him show you.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 19 Nov 2009 3:36 pm

Peter Goeden wrote:So if use the copedant suggested above and no longer have Eb on string #2 and RKR no longer lowers sting #2 to D/C#, what capabilities am I loosing?

You'd be losing a lot of good Bakersfield and Nashville licks, that's for sure.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 19 Nov 2009 4:43 pm

Peter Goeden wrote:So if use the copedant suggested above and no longer have Eb on string #2 and RKR no longer lowers sting #2 to D/C#, what capabilities am I loosing?

The capability to sit down at someone else's steel and play it.

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 21 Nov 2009 4:29 am

Tom Morrel's tuning is very interesting. I must try it!

Peter Goeden · Post by **Peter Goeden** » 22 Nov 2009 5:46 pm

Thank you Everybody. Lots of good info. I think I'll keep my E13 and E9 seperate for now. Peter