Two Old Steels - Help! ***UPDATE*** FOR SALE

Hisaaki Kobayashi · Post by **Hisaaki Kobayashi** » 9 Nov 2009 7:48 am

Hello Folks,

I'm brand new here, and admittedly, I know next to nothing about steel guitars. The reason for this post is that I have two steel guitars, and am wondering if you guys have any idea what the value is, and if you are able to provide any advice regarding how I could sell them for anywhere near their value. I would LOVE to learn how to play, as I love the sound; however, it's just not something I'll be able to do, unfortunately.

Both guitars are in working condition, and the amp also works. Brought them into a guitar store, and although the employees were going gaga over them, the owner offered $1,000.00 for the two and the amp, which I'm pretty sure is much below the value. I believe these guitars are from the 1940's, or somewhere around there, based on my grandfather's age.

Here are some pictures. Please enjoy them, and thanks in advance for any advice you can provide!

This one has the amp as well..

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 9 Nov 2009 8:13 am

Let's just say, it is my opinion that the music store owner you dealt with offered you far, far below even the wholesale value of those pieces.

The first appears to be a fairly early (wide-magnet pickup, perhaps late 30s or early 40s, I'm not an expert on the specifics of these) Rickenbacher bakelite B-6. Based on the pics, my opinion is that, alone, it's worth as much or more than the offer you got, assuming it's in good original (unmodified) condition. Someone would probably need to see it up-close to determine that for any of these.

The second looks to be a mahogany-finished, 50s D8 Fender Stringmaster with original tweed case. Of course, I can't tell much detail from these pics, but it looks pretty nice if it has its original finish - and if it is really original, again probably worth as much or more than the offer you got. I assume it has a set of 4 legs?

The third is a roughly 1953-1954 Fender tweed Deluxe amp - probably model 5D3, but possible 5C3. These are very valuable vintage amps that are highly coveted by guitar players. Let's just say - if this is in good original shape, it is my opinion that anybody offering you the equivalent of a few hundred bucks for this amp really ought to be ashamed of themselves. That is my opinion. I understand that many dealers don't have much interest in steel guitars, but a tweed Fender Deluxe is a well-known and valuable commodity in the vintage guitar world.

Of course, values depend heavily on originality and condition, and it is entirely reasonable for a dealer to offer less than the 'retail' value of an item. The other thing is that something is only worth what someone will actually pay for it.

I'm sure that you will get a number of opinions on this. If you really don't know anything about these, I suggest you find someone to do a serious appraisal - George Gruhn for the amp, and I'm not sure who would be the best person for the steel guitars - George probably would have an idea for lap/console steels, but is really not an acknowledged authority on steels. It will cost some money to get anybody to do a serious appraisal, but I think it would be worth it.

Understand that you may not, selling by yourself, get full retail value for these. The vintage guitar world is a complex, worldwide market. But I think it would be smart to arm yourself with the best info you can get before you try to sell them.

These are all my opinions.

Rich Hlaves · Post by **Rich Hlaves** » 9 Nov 2009 8:17 am

The single neck steel is a bakelite Rickenbacher, It should sell for at least $1000 on its own. I believe it is a early model B. Very collectable and they sound fantastic. Vintage looks to be pre WWII.

The double neck Fender is a Stringmaster, also a very desirable guitar, valued at $1400-1600. It looks to be from the mid to late 50s.

The amp is a Fender Tweed Deluxe and probably more valuable than either giutar. I have seen these sell for over $2.5K even in today's depressed market.

These are very valuable instruments of guality manufacture. I'm sure others will chime in with their opinions. I'm not going to comment on the dealers offer. I'm just happy for you that you didn't take it!

Best,

Rich

Al Moss · Post by **Al Moss** » 9 Nov 2009 8:47 am

That Rickenbacker is coincidentally one of the instruments in a feature article in this month's Vintage Guitar Magazine http://www.vguitar.com/current/. There was a round neck version that is thought to pre-date the earliest solid body electric guitar. -sorry I don't have the magazine in front of me, it's already been set out for curbside recycling.

The content is not available online, but here's a link to identify the name of the article.
http://www.vguitar.com/current/
The (Way) Back Beat
The Plastic Fantastic Electro Spanish
By Peter S. Kohman

Hisaaki Kobayashi · Post by **Hisaaki Kobayashi** » 9 Nov 2009 8:48 am

Wow, thanks for much for the quick information guys! I'll definitely look into having it appraise. Many thanks

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 9 Nov 2009 8:49 am

That Fender amp on Ebay would bring a bunch of money.

Tom Morse · Post by **Tom Morse** » 9 Nov 2009 9:07 am

The amp is worth at least 2k up to 2500 if it is in as good condition as it looks. I have a 54 that is severely beat up (contact paper and replacement speaker) but sounds great for guitar and is worth about $1,600.

Scotty Moore had that amp (53 or 54) when he originally played with Elvis.

I wish I walked into that music store.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 9 Nov 2009 9:35 am

Three Very valuable and desirable pieces!

The Rickenbacher Model B bakelite is a very early one, between 1935 and '37 because it has the single control, volume only. Condition is Very important in determining value. If the electronics are working properly and the tuners all work fine, and all parts are Original, the Rickenbacker would be worth about $1100, in my opinion.

The mid-1950s Fender Stringmaster D-8 w/tweed case, walnut finish, short scale (22 1/2" scale length) is worth about $1600 to $1900, in my opinion, assuming that the pickups, switches, and tuners all work properly... and it has it's 4 original Legs.

The Amp is the most valuable item, as others here have said. 1953-54 Fender Deluxe, tweed, "wide panel" amp. Guitar players go absolutely nuts for these amps because of their classic vintage tone. Buyers are very picky about Originality. They like to see original transformers and original speakers in these amps. Any changed parts, replaced parts, etc. will cut into the value severely. An all-original amp like this sells for about $2200 to $2800.
The later Deluxe (1956-60, narrow panel) sells for up to $4000. Your wide panel Deluxe is still a Very nice amp and highly sought-after.

Geoff Cline · Post by **Geoff Cline** » 9 Nov 2009 1:15 pm

Mr. Kobayashi:

All of the information that others have posted so far is correct. Your instruments and amplifier appear to be way above average examples of very fine and desirable gear. From a retailer's perspective, the guitars are "tough" because they aren't really sought after (EXCEPT by the folks who hang out around here). If you want to sell them, you'll probably have a good shot of moving them on this Forum.

There is NO EXCUSE for anyone to low-ball you on the amp. It is a gem and anyone with integrity would tell you so.

Good luck.

Geoff

Cartwright Thompson · Post by **Cartwright Thompson** » 9 Nov 2009 1:20 pm

The knob is wrong on the bakelite. That makes the guitar only worth about a hundred bucks, can you take PayPal?!?
But seriously, I think Doug and Rich are pretty realistic about the values, maybe a little high on the Stringmaster, at least at today's recession influenced prices.
It's a awesome little threesome though.

Rich Hlaves · Post by **Rich Hlaves** » 9 Nov 2009 2:18 pm

CT,

I thought the same thing about the handle on the Deluxe! Oh, I'll bet it need tubes and maybe caps. Thanks for the chuckle.

Rich

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 9 Nov 2009 4:15 pm

The guitar store guy need a very stiff kick in the,,, errrr,,, butt! Get an appraisal. Walk into the store, and laugh at him! And tell everyone in town he's not too honest!

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 9 Nov 2009 10:22 pm

Here's a link to a site where vintage instrument dealers post what they have for sale.It'll give you a fairly good overview of retail prices,as well as some eye candy.

http://www.gbase.com/

As mentioned earlier,the electronics in your Deluxe amp should be checked out.Some of the components deteriorate with age,even when the amp is stored at room temperature,and an amp that age shouldn't be run until it's serviced.That's one of the cleanest early Deluxes I've ever seen.

Personal opinion disclaimer:I think that the current economic conditions make vintage musical instruments a definite buyer's market,and these pieces are probably at a low price point now.They will probably be worth substantially more after the economy recovers.

Rich Hlaves · Post by **Rich Hlaves** » 9 Nov 2009 10:44 pm

Dave,

I absolutely agree. If I didn't need the money and owned this trio there is no way I would sell it now. Times will get better and so will the prices of these jewels. Relatively fair prices for vintage amps are being paid today but not for vintage laps.

Best,

Rich

Pat Goodbla · Post by **Pat Goodbla** » 10 Nov 2009 5:41 am

I would suggest contacting Ken Fox through this Forum for info and direction on this amp. He is a guru on these.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 10 Nov 2009 5:47 am

You can get some idea of the amp's worth by clicking this link and scrolling down.

http://www.ampwares.com/amp.asp?id=55

Hisaaki Kobayashi · Post by **Hisaaki Kobayashi** » 12 Nov 2009 11:19 am

Thanks again everyone!!!

Robbie Lee · Post by **Robbie Lee** » 12 Nov 2009 12:32 pm

I'd guess that the Rickenbacher is a 1935 from the single volume knob. There should be a serial number stamped into the very top end of the headstock. What is it? I'd guess that it might be worth a little bit more, as it is very early.

Al Moss wrote:That Rickenbacker is coincidentally one of the instruments in a feature article in this month's Vintage Guitar Magazine http://www.vguitar.com/current/. There was a round neck version that is thought to pre-date the earliest solid body electric guitar. -sorry I don't have the magazine in front of me, it's already been set out for curbside recycling.

The roundneck guitars in that article are mine. I love em

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 12 Nov 2009 12:46 pm

Info on Ebay sales for Deluxe Tweed amps from:

http://codekinesis.mine.nu:3000/price/list_history

Avg Model Year Price Avg Monthly Price Chart Avg Monthly Price
Year Qty Avg Price
1948 2 1,392
1949 5 1,756
1950 7 1,634
1951 8 2,110
1952 7 1,890
1953 35 1,723
1954 31 1,862

Mike Cass · Post by **Mike Cass** » 12 Nov 2009 8:01 pm

just curious...ser# on the Fender Stringmaster, please? It should be located underneath the back neck bridge cover between the bridge and blender wheel,
thanks,

MC

Hisaaki Kobayashi · Post by **Hisaaki Kobayashi** » 20 Nov 2009 4:06 pm

Mike, I can't find a serial number anywhere on the Stringmaster, sorry. Is it possible I'm missing it, or did they make guitars with no serial numbers?

Also nothing on the Rickenbacker, unfortunately. I looked over every inch of the thing for a while with no luck...

Hisaaki Kobayashi · Post by **Hisaaki Kobayashi** » 20 Nov 2009 4:25 pm

Fender: $1550.00

Amp: $2,350.00

Rickenbacker: $1,050.00

Honestly, I have no idea what shipping costs would be. I would have to take them to UPS and have them packaged and shipped. The prices above include shipping costs, and I'll accept PayPal or personal checks mailed to my address. Also, please - let me know if you think these are fair prices. I based them on the quotes I got from you guys. I won't be offended!

I know I didn't get them appraised...should I really go through the hassle of this? Problem is, I'm in pretty bad need of money, unfortunately.

A couple things to add. I can't find the legs for the Fender, but if I do (probably will within the next two years when I move out of my house), I will send them to the buyer of the Fender.

Both instruments and the amp look like they're all original parts, but as I really don't know much about this, I can't guarantee this. Can I post more pictures that would verify that it's all original? Also, the handle on the amp ripped off, so it needs a replacement handle. I will include the original, although it's useless.

Lastly, the guitars both work, and all the knobs work as well. The music store employee who tried them out checked all of the knobs.

If you want close-up pictures of anything at all, let me know!!!

Thank you.

hisaaki.kobayashi@gmail.com

Tore Blestrud · Post by **Tore Blestrud** » 22 Dec 2009 9:39 am

The Rick made it safe to it's new home in Norway. Sounds fantastic and in perfect condition.
Has serial number C 810, does that say anything abouth production year?

Steve Ahola · Post by **Steve Ahola** » 25 May 2010 2:14 pm

John Billings wrote:The guitar store guy need a very stiff kick in the,,, errrr,,, butt! Get an appraisal. Walk into the store, and laugh at him! And tell everyone in town he's not too honest!

The music stores I deal with would tell me that I would be much better off selling it to a private party after getting an appraisal. Music stores will usually offer only half of what they can expect to sell it for, and even less than that if they think it might stay on the floor for a long time. And even with that markup $1000 is way too low. I believe that there is a special place in hell for people like that!

I'm glad to see that this sold for a decent price.

Steve Ahola

Larry Bressington · Post by **Larry Bressington** » 25 May 2010 3:38 pm

Collector material, don't get in a hurry!

The Steel Guitar Forum

Two Old Steels - Help! UPDATE FOR SALE

Two Old Steels - Help! UPDATE FOR SALE

Amp

Fender Amp

Prices