Picks or not this is the question.

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 8 Oct 2009 7:43 am

My above comments about acrylics and tonal pallette were, admittedly, coming from a perspective of a nylon string guitarist. I can't imagine it being too much different for any stringed instrument, however. I've seen a lot of players that use nails but don't know how to properly shape them. The "proper" shape depends on the natural shape of the nail. Some people have flat nails and some people have arched nails. If you form a ramp (from the left to the right side of the fingernail) at just the right angle you can get diffent tones by rotating your hand and using different nail-to-pad ratios.

Listen to Julian Bream or any reknowned classical guitarist. Better yet, listen to Sabicas. You'll hear far more tones than a plectrum, on it's own, can produce. This might be a bit different for a typical pedal steel. Not because it's electric, but because the string spacing doesn't allow the rotation that I mentioned above.

Steve, I think being able play with and without picks is the best way to go. There's advantages and disadvantages to both. The brass Alaska picks look interesting as they would allow the use finger pad blocking and still have a sharp attack.

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 8 Oct 2009 8:04 am

Three years, almost four, and I am still struggling with the finger picks. Somehow its worse on stage and I feel like ive got a freddie kruger glove on. Lobster claws. Mittens. Im the Wolverine up there. five thumbs, each one with a metal fork taped to it.

You'll never be able to do any van halen style finger tapping without em tho

seriously, they are a huge obstacle at first and something I STILL deal with daily. This is after 25 years of guitar with a flatpick and fingertips/nails.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 8 Oct 2009 12:54 pm

Steve Benson wrote:Thanks all, this is great stuff. I just ordered a gaggle of Alaska picks brass and plastic,

You will have to trim the Alaska pics to fit. They are designed to slip under your nail so cut a little slot on each side for the nail to fit in so it won't move side to side. The front can be trimmed just like your nail. I do not have any experience with the metal ones. Good luck.

Jerry Gleason · Post by **Jerry Gleason** » 8 Oct 2009 4:02 pm

Personally, I think it's a good idea to get used to metal fingerpicks. It takes a while to get comfortable with them at first, but nothing else will give you the kind of tonal projection that a well-controlled metal pick will.

That's not to say that it's the only way, of course. As a jazz guitarist, I'm used to playing with my nails, so sometimes I go without picks, especially if I'm looking for a more subtle tonal palette to work from. For example, in this version of "Lush Life" that I recorded a while back, I play a lot of arpeggiated harmonics that just wouldn't work with fingerpicks. Since I play most of the single note lines with my thumb, I don't think anyone could tell whether I have picks on or not.

With bare fingertips / nails, you do have a lot more fingers available too, unless you wear four fingerpicks plus the thumb, but not many players would do that. Which brings up another interesting point... When I play pedal steel, I always wear three fingerpicks, but on lap steel or dobro, the third pick just seems to be in the way, and I use two. I'm not sure why, that's just what feels right.

So, while I choose to be pickless now and then, when I have to really dig in, the picks go on.

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 8 Oct 2009 11:40 pm

I don't use picks because they make a bit of a 'clicking' sound when they hit the strings. I also prefer a thicker sound.

I have almost the same approach to playing guitar. I use a flatpick when I play guitar, but I put a bit of skin from the thumb and forefinger into the picking to boost the mids and fatten up the tone a little.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 9 Oct 2009 12:34 am

when I have to really dig in, the picks go on.

Nic du Toit · Post by **Nic du Toit** » 9 Oct 2009 2:03 am

Hi Jerry,
After listening to your version of 'Lush Life', several observations came to mind....Firstly, you have certainly raised the bar as far as a great sound, or tone, is concerned (without picks!)...... I'm sure many 'pick-less' guys would strive to get near your sound....
And, it was such a pleasure to listen to the way you played this song..... great phrasing, nuances.... just lovely.
Thanks for sharing that clip.
Regards,
Nic

Jerry Gleason · Post by **Jerry Gleason** » 9 Oct 2009 9:42 am

Thank you, Nic. It was fun working that out. Listening back to that recording, it sounds like I brightened my tone settings a bit to compensate for picking with my nails, so the sound is about the same as if I used picks, maybe even a little brighter.

Steve Benson · Post by **Steve Benson** » 9 Oct 2009 10:32 am

That's a good point, If one does not put the picks on, then should tone settings on the amp come up a bit. For example on the NV112 I add some more treble and some more presence. It seems to help. I'm looking forward to trying alaska picks, I've read some good things about propicks as well. I'm new at
PSG. (about a year) I think I'll get there with my tone in time. But I need to feel the string. David Doggett said in another thread and I'm paraphrasing here...whatever you lose you gain and vise versa..
Picks aside I'm waiting on a hilton pedal and a BJS bar in the mail. Nice folks to deal with there. Should I expect a jump in tone quality by virtue of the pedal and high end bar or am I getting my hopes up?

Danny Bates · Post by **Danny Bates** » 9 Oct 2009 12:11 pm

If you can play a 6-string guitar with a flatpick, there is a way that really helped me with the fingerpicks.

This is basically an exercise I go through before using fingerpicks. It takes a max of 2 minutes to do this.

First, I align the pick on my first finger at the same angle as my thumb pick. The curve of the pick on the first pick doesn't have to be flat like the thumb pick, but the angle has to be the same. This requires twisting the fingerpick on my first finger to an extreme angle.

Then I imagine I'm playing with a flatpick and I set my hand on the guitar exactly like I'm holding a guitar pick. It is very important to be relaxed and as comfortable as possible at this point.

Then I pick 1 string (downstroke) with my thumb and I pick the next higher string with an up-stroke with my first finger. This may feel strange at first.

At this point, I am trying visualize that I am playing with a flat pick and I start moving around and playing random picking patterns, even the same string. If you can pick faster, then this method should work for you.

Now try memorize how it feels. Lift your hand and shift the pick on your first finger to a normal position on your finger and adjust your thumb and first finger to regain the same picking angle on the strings.

This new position is your "new picking position" so make sure this is comfortable to you and you can block with it.

BTW, watch players on YouTube etc., you will see that they favor the thumb and one of the fingerpicks. So, if the second finger feels better than the first, then try the same exercise with the second finger instead of the first.

This really helped me a lot. I hope it helps somebody else. Good luck.

Ethan Shaw · Post by **Ethan Shaw** » 9 Oct 2009 6:16 pm

I started as an upright bass player, also, and started playing steel with no picks. (I was also not playing country at the time.) I did get a tone that I really liked, but I now get a better (but different) tone with picks. I found that if I wanted to play fast, bare fingers were hurting my speed. Also, there's so much to learn from the old masters of steel (who mostly play country), that it would really benefit you to at least try picks, to be able to have at least a basic vocabulary of traditional pedal steel licks (some of which are really hard without picks). At least, that was how it worked for me.
Something that really helped me was using the Dunlop finger picks, and bending them until they followed along the edge of my fingers, almost touching them the whole way. It helped me make the transition a lot easier, and I still shape them that way.
Playing the upright bass takes giant, sweeping finger movements, and it was one of the hardest things for me to play with the tiny, controlled movements it takes for steel. But I really think that forcing myself to use picks helped me to pull it together.

Steve Benson · Post by **Steve Benson** » 10 Oct 2009 6:19 am

Thanks all, I completely agree. There is a "sound" that only the masters get which really yanks my heart strings. I've put a lot of time into the steel getting many basic elements down. Pedals, Knees, the great and powerful "F" lever. My left hand is "not to bad", but the right is my big weak spot. Both picks and blocking. It gets better every day. To be honest I'm ok with that. Just as I was very excited to get my 1st psg,( a three year quest, it's hard to save money on tour) I feel very lucky to know that in time with hard work I can call myself a "steel" player. There are no shortcuts with the greatest instrument on earth. Other folk may not like it. I even hear "I hate country" quite a bit from folks in my part of the country. But I could care less. What's "cool" does not last. The real deal does. In time the picks and blocking will come home.

Barry Hyman · Post by **Barry Hyman** » 10 Oct 2009 6:26 pm

Saying you can play faster with picks on is like saying you can run faster with high heels on.

Nothing wrong with picks but they are NOT NECESSARY. The only rule to music is that you should be comfortable and having fun.

I haven't used any picks at all on steel for 35 years and I can cut through the mix like a hot knife through warm butter.

Picks are like condoms -- they can be a useful tool but they are not very romantic -- I personally don't like having a little piece of plastic (or metal) in between me and the strings I love.

But don't pay too much attention to me or any of these other guys either -- listen to yourself, and, as Donny says, to the PSG players whose sound enchants you the most. Do what sounds good and feels good. It only takes about a week or two to make the switch either way, so don't worry that you are doing yourself any harm.

Picks really do interfere with blocking and muting. Would you wear them to do any other delicate work, like pulling a splinter, or getting a bug out of your eye?

And don't forget to laugh!

Steve Benson · Post by **Steve Benson** » 12 Oct 2009 7:54 am

I was waiting for you to "chime" in here Barry. That was a very bad steel pun. I always enjoy your posts Couple of questions for you. 1, do you use a thumb pick? Do you get and put up with any flack for not using picks? Kidding. What about your nails, as they get ground up on the strings what do you do to keep a even playing edge? Have you ever run into a situation where your sound was different enough from other steel players to keep you from doing a gig / session ? Thanks so much.

Barry Hyman · Post by **Barry Hyman** » 12 Oct 2009 4:18 pm

To answer your questions, Steve: No, I don't use a thumb pick, or any picks (except a flatpick about 20% of the time when I am playing 6-string guitar). I used a plastic thumpick and two or more metal fingerpicks from 1972, when I bought my first steel, until maybe 1975, when a desire to simplify my life caused me to put them on the shelf. I was playing 6-string as well as PSG with thumb pick and finger picks, and I found that if I didn't have my little pick case with me, I couldn't play, which struck me as really silly.

However one type of simplicity leads to another type of complication. Now I have to keep a nail file in my studio, and another in my car, and another in the bathroom, because if I crack a nail I have to file it smooth before the whole thing breaks off. But I usually have no problems with them wearing down otherwise because I eat lots of really healthy food, and they grow fast and thick and strong. Every once in a while if I am playing more than usual my most-used nail will wear down, but then I just substitute another finger until it grows back, because I am used to playing with four and sometimes five fingers.

No, I don't get any flack about my tone at all, partly because there are very few steel players around here, but also because I get a huge variety of tones with nails and fingertips that seem to keep audiences happy. I have a George L E-66 pickup, which is really bright, and I play through a tube amp with 10" speakers (more sacrilege here for PSG traditionalists!) so I can get treble with fingernails that would shatter a wine glass at 100 paces. But I can also instantly switch to a rich bass tone by using fingertips instead of nails and picking nearer to the center of the string, so I probably get a wider variety of tones than most players. Never lost out on a gig or session yet...

Every once in a while I try playing with picks again to see if I prefer that metal-on-metal sound, and I don't.

One other thing: Metal picks cut up the windings on strings real fast. Playing with fingernails means your strings will last at least twice as long.

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 12 Oct 2009 5:23 pm

Barry made some good points. I agree that you can play faster without picks. Feeling the string on your flesh should lead to better accuracy.

I don't get how people are getting their nails torn up by playing steel. How hard are you guys picking? The way I was taught to play the guitar is to make contact with the pad and the nail only comes into play when pulling off the string. This is what a classical or flamenco guitarist would do and it probably explains why some of you don't think you can get more tones with bare fingers.

I DO break nails playing dodgeball and other sports. Nail maintenance can be a pain.

The more I think about it, the more I want to get back to my steel (I'm out of town, at the moment) and reacquainted with playing bare. I figure a little EQing will fix the mix problem.

Barry Hyman · Post by **Barry Hyman** » 12 Oct 2009 5:49 pm

I think it's all what you are used to. If you are used to picks you can play fast with picks. If you are used to playing without them you can play fast without them. (Although I am not a fast player -- I strive for the right note or chord at the right time with the right tone, and try hard to leave out all those other notes. If you meet somebody who likes to talk 900 words every minute, would you be turned off? I would. Yet that's how a lot of people try to play. I'm into quality, not quantity...)

Similar situation with blocking, Georg. If you are used to blocking with picks, I'm sure you can block flawlessly. But I use the side of my right thumb and the tips of my picking fingers to block (as well as the ulnar side of my right palm, of course) and picks always interfered with that. Besides, I like to touch the strings, to feel how they are vibrating, to shape how they are going to vibrate, to have an intimate contact with them. Would you wear a mask to kiss somebody?

"Playing bare?" Around here, that would get you arrested! Keep your pants on, James!

Eugene Cole · Post by **Eugene Cole** » 12 Oct 2009 8:09 pm

Steve Benson wrote:I don't use picks. I'm concerned this will be a handycap as I go on.

I suggest that you do whatever works for you right now.

Every so often I use finger-picks. Using picks does offer (me) some tonal options which going without would not offer.

Obviously wearing picks will require you to re-learn the art of blocking and the feedback is different when one blocks when wearing picks. I have always struggled with blocking when wearing picks but some do it as though they were born doing it; my point is that not everyone has the same preferences much less the same aptitudes.

If you are going to play; use all of your fingers and your thumb. So if you try picks you will need to wear them on all of your fingers. It is astounding to me how many players only use/wear 3 or even only 2 fingerpicks. If you are playing Scruggs-style banjo you only have 4 strings and a drone string but on a Steel you have 10, 12, or in my case even more strings. You can play some pretty rich chords if you use all of your fingers.

If you find your self trying to copy the tone/style of other players at some point in the future and you are playing PSG you will probably need to learn to use picks. But while you are learning the instrument and seeking your own voice on the instrument just go without picks for the moment.

There are a variety of picks out there to try and (most) picks are cheap. So buy a bunch of different types and try them out as this too will help you to find your own voice on the instrument. Try the straight Koto picks, the wiry Sitar picks, the plastic ones that leave the pads of your fingertips exposed (I am told these are great for pick-tone and effective blocking).

I usually use a metal thumb pick when I use one, but I do own some plastic ones. I do use a plastic one for playing Autoharp once or twice a year. Autoharp is; I find to be too bright unless I forego picks. But sometimes a song just calls for that clackity tone which a platic thumbpick just brings out. The same is true for playing steel; sometimes the tone you will want to derive will be more accessible if you use picks.

But for now just focus on learning and playing the instrument.

Steve Benson · Post by **Steve Benson** » 13 Oct 2009 8:45 am

This is a great place, I want to thank you all for taking the time and writing. It really means a lot to me (and the poor guys that have to play with me and put up with my PSG obsession. Drove my girlfriend out of the house but that was the plan all along

) For the record I play sitar. Great tone and mine's black which also helps sitar tone. It's electric (but a real sitar) and sounds amazing through a nashville 112. I've tried sitar picks on steel. It can work and they're meant to strike the string back and forth. Alas I was not happy. Each day I put the picks on and do my best. Last night was not to bad with picks. However my "best" playing is without. I'm starting to accept this. Yet I've orded some Alaska picks and hope to get them soon. The best outcome for me would be to play with and without. PS This just in UPS showed up at my office with a new BJS bar and a hilton VP. Can't wait to get home and try them out! One thing of note. I have have always loved the "dire straits" guitar tone. I think "going pickless" is one way that I'm crossing that river.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 13 Oct 2009 9:13 am

I can't play steel without a thumb pick.

Martin Nicholes · Post by **Martin Nicholes** » 20 Mar 2010 8:57 am

Well I have found I pick best with finger picks but no thumb pick. I have developed pretty fast melody picking with my thumbnail at about 70 degrees off soundboard, and have found using a thumb pick is like throwing away 40 years of muscle memory and starting over.

For finger picks I have found the ProPik Fingertones have made the transition from fingernails to picks pretty easy to make.

Gary Richardi · Post by **Gary Richardi** » 20 Mar 2010 7:09 pm

Martin Nicholes wrote:
For finger picks I have found the ProPik Fingertones have made the transition from fingernails to picks pretty easy to make.

+1 As a rock guitar player, I've hated fingerpicks. I could get comfortable with a thumbpick, but never could with those metal finger biters. When I statred tinkering with pedal steel, I used bare fingers but didn't like the sound. A friend suggsted FingerTone picks and they were way easier to get used to than standard metal finger picks. These are the ones I like.

The Steel Guitar Forum

Picks or not this is the question.

Re: Thanks

good point

more irresponsible advice from a lunatic?

Thanks Mr H!

Re: Picks or not this is the question.