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Topic: Singing and playing your own fills |
John Polstra
From:
Lopez Island, WA, USA
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Posted 21 Sep 2009 7:56 am |
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Do any of you gigging players sing and play your own fills on pedal steel guitar? I'm finding it difficult bordering on impossible. I can just barely drone along with chords while I'm singing. I've only been playing PSG for about 6 months, so I'm hoping I'll get better at this. Any tips or advice would be welcome!
John |
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Don Sulesky
From:
Citrus County, FL, Orig. from MA & NH
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Posted 21 Sep 2009 8:31 am
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I had been playing for years but just recently had to start singing and playing in my new band.
I had problems at first with a boom mike so I bought a Shure headphone from Musicians Friend and it made my life easier as I did not have to worry about singing into a mike anymore and could concentrate on the fret board.
Don |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 21 Sep 2009 9:26 am
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Guess it was off topic. My apology.
Last edited by James Morehead on 23 Sep 2009 8:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 21 Sep 2009 9:27 am
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It's really hard, and very few people do it. One problem is that you have to concentrate on making the your bar play in tune, and at the same time concentrate on making your voice sing in tune. Piano and guitar players just have to slap their fingers down to be in tune, and can concentrate on the intonation of their voice. But a lot of the old time bottleneck slide guitar blues players did it. Like anything else, it takes practice.
Playing fills has its own problems. When you are not singing, you are thinking ahead to where you will play the next fill. It's hard to do that while you are singing. You have to have the whole song down cold, so it all comes automatic. |
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Brendan Mitchell
From:
Melbourne Australia
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Posted 21 Sep 2009 11:24 am
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| I find it impossible to do that . I can sing playing rhythm guitar but if I have to do any melody line or single note stuff , forget it . That is why I am so amazed at players who can do this eg Junior Brown . |
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Willis Vanderberg
From:
Petoskey Mi
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Posted 21 Sep 2009 2:38 pm
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| I believe it was the BIG E who said you will never play better fill than when you are singing, you won't over play and you will keep it simple. |
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Pat Comeau
From:
New Brunswick, Canada
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Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
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Posted 21 Sep 2009 3:32 pm
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If you ever see Chuck Back (of Desert Rose steels) do it, then you'll know it can be done, and done very well.
He was awesome at the Dallas Show. |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 21 Sep 2009 3:47 pm
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Hey Pat, nice job.  |
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Larry Jamieson
From:
Walton, NY USA
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Posted 21 Sep 2009 6:05 pm
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| You do that well, Pat! I can play bass or guitar and sing, but not pedal steel... Nice job! |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 21 Sep 2009 7:20 pm
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Rhasaan Roland Kirk was the only one who could sing and play sax at the same time - but then, he was playing two horns at once, so that's cheating.  |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 21 Sep 2009 7:29 pm
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It takes a bit of work but a headset mic really helps a lot !! .. one thing it teaches you is how not to play all over the vocalist !! 
_________________
14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
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Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases. |
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Rich Peterson
From:
Moorhead, MN
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Posted 21 Sep 2009 7:31 pm
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When playing your own fills, it is most effective to have the vocal and instrument lines overlap, rather than a break between them.
So practice holding out the note you're singing, as you start the fill, and jump the vocal in over the tail of the fill. The trick is to learn to breathe while you're playing the fill.
There's also the issue that looking down at the bar takes your mouth away from the mic and closes off the throat a bit. So it's easier to do a fill that doesn't require bar movement. |
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Andrew Roblin
From:
Various places
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Posted 22 Sep 2009 3:01 am
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| Tres bien, M. Comeau! |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 22 Sep 2009 5:42 am
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| Awe yes, to further Rich Peterson's comment, is keeping eye contact with the audience. And smile once in awhile. Think periphial vision---see the barhand and fretboard out of the corner of your eye. |
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Bob Blair
From:
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 22 Sep 2009 6:02 am
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| Yeah it can be hard but it is fun. I used to do it a fair bit - these days when I'm playing steel I'm just singing a bit of harmony. It does naturally teach you to make simpler choices in terms of what to play, so it is a useful exercise if nothing else. One of the things that can throw you off is having to concentrate on keeping the right distance from the mic - no doubt the headsets are a big help but I've never tried one. The real benefit of being able to do it is that if there are particular songs you really want to play, being able to sing them yourself makes it more likely that you will get a chance to, at least in a loose honky tonk kind of setting. When I was starting out I wanted to play "Farewell Party", and so when the band I was with wanted to showcase me invited me to do something that's what I did. |
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John Polstra
From:
Lopez Island, WA, USA
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Posted 22 Sep 2009 10:03 am
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Thanks for all the replies. They're a big help. I like the idea of using a headset mic, as I do still definitely need to watch my hands when I play. You guys have convinced me I should keep working on this and see how far I can get with it. Pat Comeau, you sure showed us it's possible to do it well. My fills aren't as good as yours yet even when I'm not singing.  I'm not the main singer in our band, but I do sing lead on a couple songs that could benefit from some pedal steel (for example, Merle Haggard's "Today I Started Loving You Again").
John |
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Pat Comeau
From:
New Brunswick, Canada
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Jody Sanders
From:
Magnolia,Texas, R.I.P.
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Posted 22 Sep 2009 5:16 pm
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| Billy Phelps does sing and play the fills with no problems. Slow or up-tempo. I can't. I can just barely walk and chew gum at the same time. Jody. |
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Randy Boyd
From:
Victoria, Texas, USA
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Posted 22 Sep 2009 5:42 pm
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It is difficult, but, like everyone has said, it gets easier with practice. Besides making sure I'm hitting the correct pedals, levers, and strings, my main focus has to be keeping the bar exactly on the fret marker and making sure my voice stays on pitch. If I start thinking too hard about the steel, my voice tends to wander. So, I have to divide my attention between the two.
Good luck,
Randy
_________________
Mullen G2 S10 Custom American Flag with 4 & 5; Fender & G&L Tele's, TC Electronics micro effects , Telonics TCA-500b Mini 15 Amp, & Telonics Volume Pedal. |
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Kevin Greenberg
From:
Lakewood, CA
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Posted 22 Sep 2009 5:57 pm Singing and playing
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I taught myself how to sing lead vocals and play drums, and now I'm doing it with steel with moderate success. It seems that on some songs it works, some songs it takes work, and some songs it just don't work. It depends on the rhythm of the vocals versus the rhythm of the steel.
*And it is VERY important to use a headset mike, it makes your life SO much easier. Your friends might make fun of you, but it's worth the razzing. We already got enough to concentrate on, without having to constantly adjust some silly stand, or worry about singing into the mike. I always found it easier to learn the instrument, then the vocals, then combine them and practice alot. |
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John Polstra
From:
Lopez Island, WA, USA
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Posted 22 Sep 2009 7:16 pm Re: Singing and playing
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| Kevin Greenberg wrote: |
| I always found it easier to learn the instrument, then the vocals, then combine them and practice alot. |
That seems like a good approach, Kevin. I also play bass in a rock band, and on the songs that I sing I had to get the bass part down first to where it was automatic. As one of my teachers told me, you have to get it down so well that it feels like you're watching some other guy play the bass part. It's a lot easier with bass, though, because bass parts (at least in rock) tend to be simple repeated patterns.
John |
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Don Sulesky
From:
Citrus County, FL, Orig. from MA & NH
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Ernie Pollock
From:
Mt Savage, Md USA
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Posted 23 Sep 2009 5:19 am Tough, but possible!!
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I have a group that does some of the nursing homes in our area, I started singing & playing steel at the same time about 3 years ago. It was very hard, but I am improving. The one problem I have, is I can't remember the words very well. So I got one of Tom Bradshaws music racks for my guitar & use a book. I make an occasional mistake, but play for the old folks as a volunteer effort. the more I sing, the better I like doing it. Read Buddy Emmons reply, thats all true, no overplaying, thats for sure. I do use a Universal S-12U & do some crazy things with those bass notes!!
Ernie Pollock |
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John Polstra
From:
Lopez Island, WA, USA
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Posted 23 Sep 2009 8:32 am
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Thanks, Don. You answered the question I was just about to ask.
John |
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