new toy from kaoss

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 16 Sep 2009 6:41 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrXQZaJl ... re=related
Anyone tried this on steel?

regards, Johan

admin · Post by **b0b** » 16 Sep 2009 9:36 am

I think I'm gonna be sick.

Seriously, I didn't hear one effect in that demo that I would ever consider using. Guess I'm just to old and musically conservative to "appreciate" it.

Loren Claypool · Post by **Loren Claypool** » 16 Sep 2009 11:24 am

I am using a mini-KP Kaoss Pad in the effects loop of my Line 6 Pod X3 Pro for all of my instruments, including lap steel. I'm finding more uses for the device and am particularly enjoying the filters. Different from the video, though, I'm not "playing" the pad, but essentially using it as a multi-purpose effects unit.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 16 Sep 2009 2:09 pm

Yeah, well, that's...uhh certainly one of the, uhh, and without a doubt, it will, if uhh...properly used, be one of the things that, and I don't mind saying, it will be, after a while, one of the main, and of course, you also have to appreciate exactly, but without employing certain, how should we say, and even if it wasn't, most players would would agree.

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 16 Sep 2009 2:42 pm

This toy isn't all that new. I had one of the mini-Kaoss pads for a while, before it was stolen with a bunch of my gear in San Fran.

I was using it for the filters and the oscillating delays. While the demo is awful and unmusical, the Kaoss pad can be used for some pretty cool real-time effects morphing. The issue is that the levels are all over the place on the mini-KP and there is only one preset. The thing was made for DJs so the effects are extremely lo-fi and the only ouputs are RCA. It's also noisy.

I've wondered why someone hasn't come out with a version for guitarists. Maybe a simply XY midi controller that you can mount on your instrument.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 16 Sep 2009 5:21 pm

There's a lot of things that are entertaining to play with for a while, but when you have to listen to someone else playing with them you realize that maybe they don't add so much, huh... about 75% of my favorite guitarists experimented with guitar synthesizers till they turned blue in the face, and about 95% of the time I wish they hadn't.

I finally scored a mint-condition Lexicon Vortex - wanna hear it?

This guy's wife makes him stay in the basement:

Is that a water heater or an H-bomb?

admin · Post by **b0b** » 17 Sep 2009 7:01 am

I worry that playing with effects hurts my technique. The more I hear the effect, the less I hear what my hands are actually doing. I get sloppy.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 17 Sep 2009 7:11 am

Somehow, I'm always more impressed when someone plays an instrument.

(As opposed to someone who just plays with an instrument.)

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 17 Sep 2009 7:57 am

Guys, you probably both use distortion, reverb, delay and a volume pedal. Chorus, maybe? Because someone uses effects doesn't mean they can't or don't play.

Again, that demo wasn't music, just a demonstration of sound. Using an XY pad to affect what you are playing is no different than using a wah or a volume/tone pedal.

I think it takes as much skill to play with affects than without. It's a different skill, but it IS a skill.

Something to keep in mind is that the guitar in the demo has a built in Fuzz Factory that results in most of the nasty tones.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 17 Sep 2009 9:04 am

I'm not disagreeing with that, James. Not much anyway. I'm just saying that when I practice, I practice pretty dry. The only time I use effects when practicing is when I'm learning to use the effect. Practicing dry builds the technique in my hands. That takes a lot more time than learning how to use an effect.

I also practice scales and non-musical patterns to build technique. I know - boring. But it works.

I'm fine with switches and knobs on effects boxes. I don't have a real use for an XY touchscreen.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 17 Sep 2009 1:55 pm

James Mayer wrote:Guys, you probably both use distortion, reverb, delay and a volume pedal. Chorus, maybe? Because someone uses effects doesn't mean they can't or don't play.

No argument from me there, James. Of course, I do believe that each of us has the choice as to where to put most of our concentration and effort. If we concentrate more on sound effects than we do on playing skills, that fact will obvious to listeners. There's nothing at all wrong with making a lot of funny noises, and even enjoying it! (That is, as long as you realize that not everyone is into funny noises.)

Bo Borland · Post by **Bo Borland** » 18 Sep 2009 4:57 am

Now that's what I call musick $:\$ TO each his own I guess

Loren Claypool · Post by **Loren Claypool** » 18 Sep 2009 9:22 pm

Interesting debate, I'll weigh in with another line of sight.

The quest for the tone and sound can take many a path. For some it's simply an acoustic instrument, for others it's an electric instrument plugged into a tube amp, for others it's a more complex configuration. In any case, it's a personal journey.

Honing one's craft is also a personal journey. From A Preface To Guitar Craft by Robert Fripp:

The musician acquires craft in order to operate in the world. It is the patterning of information, function and feeling which brings together the world of music and sound, and enables the musician to perform to an audience. These patterns can be expressed in a series of instructions, manuals, techniques and principles of working.
This is the visible side of craft, and prepares the musician for performance. It is generally referred to as technique. The greater the technique, the less it is apparent.

The list of brilliant musicians across all genres and instruments who refuse to see these two journeys as either mutually exclusive or a choice for concentration is endless. I am as likely to be humbled watching a talented player navigate a complex series of changes as I am watching an electronic musician navigate buttons, switches, and devices. A favorite example of a musician who does both extremely well is Bill Frisell. In any case, the fundamental question to be answered is simple - does the music touch me?

I'm with bOb on practicing scales and non-musical patterns to build technique. Matter of fact, I may be the only guy on the planet practicing Guitar Craft Primaries on lap steel! And when I am working on technique it is generally acoustic, dry, or even unplugged. There is a direct correlation between the time I invest in the "boring" stuff and the transparency of technique when I am performing, writing or recording music.

I also work with sound at many levels; instruments, devices, analog and digital effects units, plug-ins, amps, loops, etc. Developing technique in this space is also important for some of the music I make. The aim for me isn't "funny noises", rather tones and sounds that contribute to my music. I dig the sound of a naked acoustic guitar. I dig a baritone Tele through a spring reverb in a tube amp. But I dig a lo-fi, filtered, decimated, pitch-shifted lap steel played with an eBow, too!

I hang out here and at the forum over at http://psychopompos.org/, and a few others, too. I wonder if many of us frequent both places. There is some absolutely fascinating music being created by the members of that forum, too. Some of the music is breathtaking, some of the approach is thought provoking, some of the music doesn't touch me or make me think. That's okay, but it doesn't make the work any less valid. And for what it's worth, I don't recall any members of that forum poking fun at the music created by this forum's members.

Speaking of practice, I have an acoustic guitar ensemble performance in Chicago this weekend - no effects, just a pick and strings! For those in the area I'll be performing with Guitar Circle of Chicago at 6:30 pm at The HomeGrown Music Series, details over at http://www.guitarcircleofchicago.com.