Windows or Linux?

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 4 Sep 2009 1:13 pm

Chip Fossa wrote:Mitch,

I've got a Lambda Lexicon audio interface with Steinberg Cubase software. Would this work with Linux?

Cubase is Windows/Mac only.
For your sound card, try the manufacturer's web site, or ALSA page -> "Is my sound card supported?"

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 4 Sep 2009 1:24 pm

Thanks EB,

Now we're getting to the other side.

My sound card is a simple Sound Blaster AudigySE.

OK - I better definitely checkout the soundcard compatability, or lack of.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 4 Sep 2009 1:38 pm

Well,

I just checked out ALSA and in the Creative Labs section, SBAudigySE and Value are not quite supported. My sound card is one or the other. That spoils the party.

It says: "Digital and Analog Input does not work yet. Needs more development.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 4 Sep 2009 2:07 pm

Same with my sound card. I can listen but can't record in Linux.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 4 Sep 2009 2:14 pm

It looked like there may have been some kind of 'fixes', but they all just went on and on in heavy computerese (beyond my scope) and I'm sure if I attempted any of it, I'd get lost sooner or later.
I'm not really good at 'command' commands. One misstep with a character and forget it. Poof! Start over. Bad eyesight doesn't help, either.

Too much fussing.

Steve Norman · Post by **Steve Norman** » 4 Sep 2009 3:29 pm

that sound card will work. I use creative. It should work right of the bat. You will be able to tell running from the live cd what works and what doesnt. If it doesnt work its usually a pretty painless solution. Your interface on the other hand, may or may not work. I bet it does, but the live cd will tell you that as well.

Also seriously, when you do you install shrinking a partition to make room for linux is not hard. Your overthinking the hard drives,which will cause confusion.

Run from the cd, then open a terminal window and type sudo gparted at the command prompt. You will get a graphical device that looks at you hard drive(s) and partitions.

you will get something that looks like this

http://kajar.files.wordpress.com/2009/0 ... ed-gui.jpg

this guy has a hard drive named hda

hda is devided into 3 partitions:
hda1
hda3
hda4

partition hda4 has within itself another partition, hda5

where is hda2? maybe he deleted it, or he just skipped it in the naming. They yellow in the partitions is how much space is used. the white is how much space is open. this is also listed textually below the graphic.

in the top right is a hard drive selection menu. any other storage devices will be in that drop down, other hard drives, external drives, thumb drives, memory cards, ipods etc.

hard drives are named hd or sd
usb devices are named something else, like sdd (that varies from device and computer).

on the example I gave, hda1 contains a file type ntfs. this is a windows file system so you can safely bet thats where his windows partition lives. It would be his C drive. on this example there is no f drive. if there was another partition with the nfts file system on it, that would probably be his c drive.

hda3 or 5 contain his linux os and files. He has no room to shrink and install any more oses, but if he had plenty of white left, he could shrink one and load another os in the room created. This is the procedure you would do during an install.

Seriously, use the live cd, you cant hurt anything unless you really try to, for example, in gparted dont move anything, just look at it. thats about the only danger from the live cd.

Here is how an OS works, when you boot, the computer loads the OS into your ram from the hard drive. so with the live cd its loading into your ram from the cd instead. Changes made only happen in the ram. The hard drive is not being used. when you reboot, the ram resets itself. the hard drive never new there was another os in the house. you have to do some work to mess with the hard drive from a live cd, and it is very very unlikely that you will accidentally do that.

The live cd will be slower than an installed version of linux, so be prepared for that.

Steve Norman · Post by **Steve Norman** » 4 Sep 2009 3:39 pm

here is a youtube of a dual install, including the dreaded partitioning. in this case there was free space on the harddrive. where there none, you would have to shrink an existing partition, creating the free space needed for the new partition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVOsHrYF9XI

Mitch Drumm · Post by **Mitch Drumm** » 4 Sep 2009 4:25 pm

delete duplicate post

Mitch Drumm · Post by **Mitch Drumm** » 4 Sep 2009 4:29 pm

Chip:

NO in capital letters: C and D are not part of the motherboard.

Hard drives are connected to the motherboard, but are separate components.

Assuming you provided the correct info about what you saw in Disk Management, then you DO have 2 separate hard drives--both connected to the motherboard, both separate and distinct components.

Do yourself a favor. Open the case and look. The HDs are about the size of a 1950s pocket book and will each have 2 cables connected to them.

In your case, one has C, D, and Eisa partitions and the other F only. It behooves you to know which is which. If you disconnect one at random and find that you can't boot into Windows, then you know that is the drive with C and D. Leave it disconnected when you try to install Linux.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 4 Sep 2009 6:24 pm

Duplicate post deleted

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 4 Sep 2009 6:31 pm

Steve & Mitch,

Thanks guys, yet again.

I'm not going to do any more tonight with Linux. I've been at this PC most of the day, starting early this morning.

I'm beat up. But I'll be back tommorrow with a vengance; and continue-on.

Mitch, I'll open the case and do the survey. I definitely know which unit is Seagate, though.

Steve, I was fearing a response such as yours (just kidding). Right now, it's Greek, really GREEK, to me.
I just need a good night's sleep.

Steve Norman · Post by **Steve Norman** » 5 Sep 2009 9:58 am

this vid series seems pretty good, part 4/5 talks about resizing hard drives to accomadate both windows and linux

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5lNXgh3r10&NR=1

Id watch that part now, then go back and watch the part 1 through the end.

Sorry about confusing you, naming of hard drives and partitions are unnecessarily difficult. It makes sense after awhile tho.

The way I learned about hard drives was to think of them as filing cabinets, partitions are the drawers. At first when they are new they only have one drawer. Then you go to the garage and make more drawers out of the first big drawer. This is partitioning. So now you have more than one drawer in a filing cabinet.

So to install linux you have to take a pre-existing drawer out to the garage and make 2 drawers out of it. one drawer will have linux and one windows.

Step 1 for you should still be burning a disc of ubuntu and running it from the cd without installing. You will know real quick if you like it or not.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 6 Sep 2009 4:52 am

Steve,

I watched both of those YouTube videos on Ubuntu.

It looks like Ubuntu is actually being installed.

I already have the burned CD for Ubuntu created.

Before I put it in and turn it on, I just want to be sure that is INDEED not gonnna get installed. Maybe I'm getting confused here, but it looks like to run Ubuntu from the CD, it still has to be semi-installed, or something? (according to the video)- or is that a complete install?

Along with partitioning, I ain't ready for that just yet.

Wiz Feinberg · Post by **Wiz Feinberg** » 6 Sep 2009 8:16 am

Chip;
The CD you burned is called a Live CD. It loads Ubuntu into RAM and you run it entirely from system memory. You cannot accidentally install Ubuntu, unless you are drunk. The installation process requires lots of user interaction.

Steve Norman · Post by **Steve Norman** » 6 Sep 2009 9:03 am

Yeah I was just showing you the install procedure so you could see it.

Like Wiz said, you have to hit install to do install. youll see an option that says something to the effect of
" run ubuntu from the cd without changing the computer".

Ubuntu will go away when you log out. Just make sure to take the cd out of the tray before reboot.

A couple things you will encounter, you will not be able to watch flash or youtube videos right away, any 3d drivers will not be available, and the computer will be slower since your running of RAM and the hard drive is not involved. Linux is significantly faster after its installed.

Ubuntu doesnt have the flash plugins and drivers by default due to legal and political reasons. This is because those are proprietary and Ubuntu only ships with open-source software. Later, you can enable everything you need.

Another frustration will be installing things. .exe files will not work, you cant just click on something and have it install like in windows. This is one of the reasons why linux is not vulnerable to most virus threats , but it is another source of confusion for new linux users.

Since you are running from the live cd anything you install will go away when you log out. This includes any documents your working on, etc. If you need to save something, save it to an external hd or thumb drive.

Let us know how it goes!

Wiz Feinberg · Post by **Wiz Feinberg** » 6 Sep 2009 10:26 am

I should add another point about installing updates under Ubuntu. Once you do install that OS and decide you want to update existing programs, you have to do so by using the "Update Manager." For example, you cannot update Firefox by means of the Check for Updates link. It will be grayed out. You must get new versions via Update Manager, with anything else that has updates available.

Installing new software requires the use of the package-management system.

All of these things are fully covered by the offline and online help and FAQ's, and on the user support forums.

Many Windows based programs can be installed into Ubuntu using the third party interface known as WINE, which you can install via Package Management System. But, they may not be able to recreate or import saved Registry entries, thus may be semi usable.

For instance, I can install MailWasher Pro under the latest version of Ubuntu, but, I cannot import a saved Reg file with all of my accounts. I have to manually recreate each email account under Ubuntu, which takes a good part of an hour (I have 25 accounts).

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 6 Sep 2009 7:50 pm

I'm just getting back from Bristol, CT. Went to visit my sister and brother-in-law.

Dan (B-I-L) has been at PCs for years and still is; it's part of his work.

He advised me to REALLY watch out. He said that Acronis imaging may not work if some things go south. He said you best back up and save, simply via copy/paste, all the things you cherish. Imaging is not foolproof is what he said.
Backup your data files and don't worry about system files.

He said that simply physically disconnecting C drive and leaving F drive alone as the only option an Ubuntu install would have, is defeated, once C drive is hooked back up. It's not as simple as it sounds to simply disconnect a HDD and then re-hook it up.

I listen to all you guy-ohs here; and today, from the very dude that encouraged me to get a PC back in 1998; I get conflicting inputs. He really emphasized that I may be biting off more than I can chew; or eschew.

I'm gonna put the CD in. Not tonight.

Tommorrow. And let's really see if I even want to bother with this.

Everybody here - you guys are the best. I'm just hearing contradictory reports.

Steve Norman · Post by **Steve Norman** » 6 Sep 2009 8:58 pm

running of the cd will not hurt anything and can not hurt anything. It is very different from an install.

Data on a crashed hard drive is recovered through unix/linux distros usually, so that should tell you something.

Those guys that hate linux will not tell you linux is okay. Those of us who took the chance and put in the effort to learn know the truth. Linux is safer than any other os.

The fact is, you should back up your data files regardless of your OS.

as far as disconnecting a HD, that can cause you problems in the long run if you need it to boot windows.

There was advice early in the thread to find a local linux users group in your area, that is sound advise as you can get someone to help assure you that loading linux is not the same as spraying saltwater at you computer.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 6 Sep 2009 9:40 pm

Thanks Steve,

I can't even find a good rhythm guitar player around where I live, let alone a Linux user group.

Even if I were to find such a group, I doubt right now I would bother to go and join up.

Isn't that the whole point of this Forum? If you guys, you know, say go and find a local group...? The red flags are already up. This is something that 'one' can really mess up, if they punch the wrong button. Believe me, I've done this a dozen times with PCs since I first started.

I am just ULTRA cautious now. I can't afford to fry this PC, right now. I don't have the bread to replace the PC; never mind the actual personal files/data loss.

Look, I'm not trying be an a$$hole here, about Linux.

I'm conflicted and I really don't have the time or inclination to seek out Linux help.

I'm getting to feel, if I can't "get it" here, what's the point in seeking out other help.

The fun utile is quickly diminishing, and after all, that's what it's all about.

But with that said, I owe it to you guys and myself to put the CD in and see what we have here.

Just not tonight. Tommorrow.

Thank you

Steve Norman · Post by **Steve Norman** » 6 Sep 2009 10:26 pm

Just like on the steel you really cant get it till you try it, reading about computers is roughly the same as smashing your head with a brick. Your a little dumber afterwards. But once you start building a bbq pit the brick starts making sense. I guarantee you will know more about partitioning hard drives after this than you ever thought you would! Linux does make you learn a bit about your computer. But that is not a bad thing. The windows approach is to sell you something to fix a problem that shouldn't have existed in the first place. The Linux method is to learn why the problem happened, and fix it yourself. You become self sufficient versus more dependant on a money making scheme. Next thing you know people are calling you a geek! weeeeeeeeeeeeee!

The only reason I recommend a linux group is to allay fear.

I can tell you this from experience, installing Ubuntu is about 9000 times easier than installing windows.

Let us know how the cd trial runs! exciting isnt it?

have fun tomorrow!

Im just putting this here so I remember it

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 6 Sep 2009 10:33 pm

Everybody's got tommorrow/today off, and I will be Ubuntuing via the CDRomski.

Thanks again, Stevearino

Later...

Steve Norman · Post by **Steve Norman** » 6 Sep 2009 10:37 pm

heres a motivator

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o5BZNS2WfM&feature=fvsr

night Chip

John Cipriano · Post by **John Cipriano** » 7 Sep 2009 12:20 am

Chip, my advice (sorry if it's conflicting) is not not mess with your partitions and bootloader.

But if it turns out that you like Ubuntu and want to install it, there's something called Wubi:

http://wubi.sourceforge.net/

Wubi is a Windows program. You download it and run it, and when you reboot you have a computer that will load either Windows or Ubuntu. (Ubuntu gets downloaded into a folder on the Windows patition).

There's no partitioning, your bootloader doesn't get replaced, basically all the stuff that can go wrong is avoided. And you can uninstall from Add/Remove programs.

It's really slick.

Wiz Feinberg · Post by **Wiz Feinberg** » 7 Sep 2009 9:50 am

John Cipriano wrote:Chip, my advice (sorry if it's conflicting) is not not mess with your partitions and bootloader.

But if it turns out that you like Ubuntu and want to install it, there's something called Wubi:

http://wubi.sourceforge.net/

Wubi is a Windows program. You download it and run it, and when you reboot you have a computer that will load either Windows or Ubuntu. (Ubuntu gets downloaded into a folder on the Windows patition).

There's no partitioning, your bootloader doesn't get replaced, basically all the stuff that can go wrong is avoided. And you can uninstall from Add/Remove programs.

It's really slick. :)

I forgot all about Wubi. I am using it on two computers to dual boot into Ubuntu. It makes installing Linux much easier and saves the partitioning hassles, as John wrote. In fact, the Ubuntu installation lives on my internal "D" drive, in a folder. I just had to choose how much disk space to allow Linux to have, then the install proceeded flawlessly.

When you first boot into Ubuntu you will be prompted to create a new user name and password. The name must be all lowercase. The password can be as simple or complex as you wish. From then on you must login with that name and password.

Inside of Linux you will come across many instances where you need to use your password to install, upgrade, or modify settings (just like Vista/W7). This will be a pop-up prompt box, just like Vista uses.

The command SUDO - used in a "Terminal" window (like a DOS window, but white instead of black), grants you administrator level privileges to install or modify anything, under Linux.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 8 Sep 2009 2:48 am

Thanks John and Wiz,

I'm posting the Forum here, via UBUNTU. I decided to put in the CD early this morning when I'm most awake.

I did indeed read up on Wubi as well as other related links on Ubuntu.

So far, I like it. Haven't done much, yet, except come right here.
I did try to import Thunderbird email, but hit a snag with server type and the exact address of Comcast. Also whether or not I'm IMAP or POP. (I hafta look all that stuff up) So I cancelled the whole deal.

With the CD running, is there a way to switch between Ubuntu and Windows? Or can you only do this with the complete install?

When using Wubi, will it work with v.9.4? That's what I created on the CD.

Also, will I be able to direct the installation to D: drive?

Or how about F: drive? C: drive has 144GB with 61GB used & 83GB free. D: drive has 144GB with 143GB free. I know F: drive has quite a bit of free space, as well (just can't view it right now, but I think I listed it's GBs up above).

What's a good size limit (GB) to assign to Ubuntu? The whole drive?

Either way, I'm gonna mess around more with Ubuntu, and wait for a bit more input from you guys.

Thanks a-bunch, again.