Hi, this is my first post, but I’ve been lurking here off and on for years. I’ve been dabbling with 6 string lap for some time, but I recently bought a homemade 8 string to learn C6 tuning with. It just will NOT hold it’s tuning very well, though. I’m very new to this, so I may make a fool of myself with these questions.
The nuts at either end are round brass bars with slots. They sit freely in their channels and can slide and turn easily. Are they supposed to be able to do this? I realize that the string tension should hold them in place, but something is just unstable somewhere. I'm not doing behing the bar bends or pushing down on the strings hard with the bar. It detunes itself just sitting with me not touching it. There’s a pic below so you can see what I’m referring to. It sounds very good and I’m really liking the George L pickup, but the tuning is getting really frustrating.
Any suggestions? Any help would be so appreciated.
Its hard to say for sure what the issue is, but I'll try and cover a few points.
As long as the round stock at the nut and bridge is not moving around / is staying in place when the strings are under tension, then that should not be an issue.
Are the strings moving freely in the nut slots when brought to pitch? Any popping or pinging when tuning up? Does the tuning go flat or sharp?
Are you stretching the strings when you put a new set on?
Are the tuners mounted firmly with their small tab screw in place?
A straight down photo of the tuning keys would help. I say this because the tuners may be in backwards although the guitar does appear to be well made but it should be checked out. The next thing to find out is if the tuners are the adjustable type. They may be too loose and a simple tightening can cure the problem. Have the strings been installed properly with enough turns on the shaft to prevent slippage? The first 2/3 strings are the most likely to slip if there isn't enough turns on the shaft. Which strings are going out of tune the most. One other possibility is that the string quality may not be up to snuff and are stretching with little tension. What strings and gauge are you using? I think the problem can be solved and the frustration ended with a little analysis. Don't give up!
Thanks for the suggestions. The strings have a nice amount of wraps and they are going *under* the post as you tighten them, so I think that's correct. I have some Stewmac guitar grease on each slot on both brass nuts so the string should move smoothly.
Upon further exacmination, I have found what's most probably the problem. The end of the bridge pulls up away from the body when it is tuned to pitch. I've checked my string guages and they should be fine for standard C6. They don't feel that tight, so I'm surprised by this. I've loosened the strings, screwed the screws tight until the bridge is flush to the surface, but when tuned, it starts to come up. I think the screw holes are a little large for the screws.
Perhaps the glue and dowl trick, or I may go ahead and drill through and use a recessed bolt on the back.
If your bridge is pulling up, then thats definitely a problem.
You can use a couple tooth picks and some wood glue to tighten up the screw holes, but I'm wondering if maybe there is a reason they pulled up.
Its hard to tell from your picture, but it looks like there are 2 screws on the middle edges / ends of the plate. Is that all there is?
On a plate like that, I'd suggest at least 3 if not 4 fairly beefy and long screws along the back edge closer to the ball end retainer. Some stainless steel #8 x 1" would hold it down.
Yes, it’s just the two screws, and it’s a pretty steep break angle focusing a lot of pull from the back. There’s not really a place to drill on the back edge and I don’t have the ability or equipment to drill more holes. It would be a very precise undertaking. I took off the bridge and filled the holes with wood glue and kitchen match sticks. I’ll see how it goes. If it doesn’t work, I can always try making it a string-through or bolting it all the way through the body.
BTW, Tom, I recognize you and your beautiful craftmanship from The Gear Page. You've answered a couple of my questions over there, as well. I'm "dhdfoster" there.
Hi Daniel ... cool ... I recognize your GP name for sure.
Here is a quick drawing of what I meant for hole location, center them out between the strings, 3/8" or so in from the back edge is fine. Should not be too hard to do with a hand drill if you have one.
For a #8 screw, you would want a 5/32' hole through the plate and 1/8" hole in the wood.
From the picture I'm thinking there's no plate there to drill through. Tom's right, you need more screws at the back end, even if you went string through body, there's a whole lot of leverage on those two screws.
If the bar at the back with the string holes in it were fatter and had some screws through it going into the body that might do it. Know any machinists?
From the picture I'm thinking there's no plate there to drill through
Good eye Mark, looking at it some more, it looks like the retainer is a bolted on piece of bar stock.
Maybe a couple small L brackets off the back using the through bolts to attach to the bridge.
You’re correct, not bridge plate. I was thinking L brackets or something similar, as well. I think I’ll ask around and see if anyone knows anyone that has access to a machine shop.
I may reconstruct it with a different bridge and geometry.
