Overdrive

Bernie Hedges · Post by **Bernie Hedges** » 11 Aug 2009 8:59 am

Hi Mickey,
I use a Voodoo labs Sparkle Drive. I used it for guitar and I think it works fine for steel as well. Its basically a TS808 Tube Screamer clone BUT it has a fourth knob which allows you to dial in how much clean sound or how much dirty sound you want. If you turn the gain all the way down (the gain controls the distortion) and the clean all the way up you get straight clean boost. If you have an old tube fender like a BF Super Reverb the clean tone is enough to overdrive the amp with out any additional distortion. If you turn the clean all the way off and the gain all the way up you will get plenty of distortion.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 11 Aug 2009 9:06 am

Some of the Boss pedals will work OK - the problem for me is personally I think the tone of most of their line is "lowest common denominator" - not bad, but sort of generic. The Blues Driver, for example, is a decent sounding overdrive and I could use one just fine...except the higher-end pedals I mentioned, in my opinion (and "good sounding pedal" is always a very subjective topic) blow the Boss off the map.

I had forgotten about the Twin-Tube; I've found tube-based OD or distortion units seem to work pretty well without impedance matching, so that makes sense. The trick is simply whether or not you like the tone. I don't care for master-volume tube amps where the preamp is used for "overdrive" (distorting the signal) - it's a thinner sound than output tube distortion, which I get with the higher-ticket OD's an a cranked amp, or the better-sounding (to me) distortion units.

With Boss, MXR, Digitech and other "production" pedals it's easy to go to Guitar Center or Sam Ash, buy one, try it, and return it within 30 days for a refund - since you can't easily drag your steel to the store to test pedals. Most of the high-end stuff is sold by smaller outfits - some have a similar policy but some don't...and it can get REAL expensive buying new pedals, going through the "honeymoon" and then deciding they don't work for you, if you have to sell 'em on eBay at a loss and start over.

But I would strongly recommend looking around for an online seller of high-end pedals that has a 14 or 30 day return policy, and trying (obviously, if you can afford temporary cash outlay) one or two recommended high-end devices, comparing them to production stompboxes from GC.

You might find the high-end stuff IS that much better...but on the other hand, every once in a while you get lucky, like I did with a $12 (retail!) Danelectro "delay" pedal that is both unique and amazing sounding.

If you get hooked on trying new effects you are in a lifelong battle - and a candidate for musician's meetings:

"Hi, I'm Jim and I'm a pedal junkie..."

Ask Kjaergaard · Post by **Ask Kjaergaard** » 11 Aug 2009 9:23 am

I'll recommend two pedals by the danish brand "T-rex". They make a distortion called Mudhoney and an OD called Alberta. The Mudhoney in particular is the best sounding dist. I've ever used. It's very versatile and I use it both for guitar and pedal steel. They should be available in the US. Once you've tried any of those pedals, you'll never even consider buying a Boss pedal...

-A.K.

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 11 Aug 2009 11:05 am

I have a suggestion. Since we are talking about the overpowered PSG pickups not working with regular six-string overdrive units, I started thinking. I play a lap steel with a six-string pickup, but I have a tube preamp before the volume pedal. That preamp is probably jacking up the volume more than a PSG pickup does. It certainly increases the volume more than the Hilton VP I once used (with variable boost knob) and yet, I still get a good distortion sound. The difference is that I put my overdrive pedals AFTER the VP. I've always thought it sounded better but everyone on this forum seems to likes the opposite. I like to hear the quality of the distortion change as I move the volume pedal. You can "lean into" certain notes with the VP and get some cool variety in tone. Most overdrive pedals compress the signal and I find the VP use is less noticeable as a result.

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 11 Aug 2009 11:44 am

In a venue where a lot of overdrive or distortion is going to be needed I use my Vegas amp which has two preamps. I use one preamp for the clean settings and the other for the overdrive or distortion setting. I suggest a stereo processor with the effects set to stereo and 100% left or right on each setting, depending whether you want clean left preamp or distorted right preamp. Sometimes a combination of the ywo sounds the best. My choice of processor is a TubeFex and to me I get a really great sound on the clean side and a real descent sound on the distorted side.
The next solution is if you just have one preamp on your favorite amp use a processor that has distortion and amp simulation. I've got fairly decent distortion sound out of most any processor with amp simulation but the clean setting all mostly sucked but usable.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 11 Aug 2009 1:00 pm

I've been experimenting with my new flat-output Alumitone PU, and I went through the kitty-box - so far the best seems to be an old Tube Works "Real Tube" box, the black/yellow bumblebee one. It's similar to the Tube Driver, but with drive, volume, bass, treble and midrange controls. I have a 12AU7 in there instead of the 12AX7 to tame it a bit. It really likes my steel!

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 11 Aug 2009 3:57 pm

Georg Sørtun wrote:I prefer a kind of "broken tube amp" distortion I can play on.

You would love the Seymour Duncan Twin Tube (or the new Blues version). That's exactly what it gives you. If you put it before the volume pedal, you can dial it in to be pick sensitive. If it is after the VP it will distort according to your VP use.

Jim Sliff wrote:I had forgotten about the Twin-Tube...The trick is simply whether or not you like the tone. I don't care for master-volume tube amps where the preamp is used for "overdrive" (distorting the signal) - it's a thinner sound than output tube distortion, which I get with the higher-ticket OD's an a cranked amp, or the better-sounding (to me) distortion units.

If you haven't already, you should give one a try. To me it doesn't sound like thin preamp OD. I don't know how they do it, but the distortion is so un-thin that I have to dial the treble way up and bass way down. Since it has two tubes, it is conceivable that it overdrives one, and also uses that one to overdrive the other, similar to how the preamp and power tube sections can both overdrive and interact in a guitar amp. The lead channel especially has a lot of low end distortion. Still, it is true you have to like the tone it gives, since that's what the boxes are all about.

The October issue of Guitar Player has an article "All About...Fuzz, overdrive, and Distortion Pedals." It's a misnomer, since it is only a superficial overview, but it does a decent job of explaining the differences between the different types of boxes. The categories as they describe them are:

Boost - intended for clean boost, and/or to kick the amp into OD. But some of them are not strictly clean, and so do introduce tone alterations.

Overdrive - intended to replicate the sound of an overdriven tube amp, and in front of a tube amp can induce some of the real thing.

Fuzz - intended to mimic the "raspy, reedy tone of a saxophone." They introduce their own hairy tone, but can also OD the amp, so you can get a combination.

Distortion - designed to sound like a tube amp going beyond mild overdrive to full raging distortion, with scooped EQ and compression. Aims to get the full tube distortion tone without necessarily overdriving the amp, and maybe even with a solid-state amp.

Obviously there is a lot of overlap in what these various pedals do, and many of them can drive a tube amp into overdrive. And the makers don't necessarily stick to the above definitions in naming their boxes.

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 11 Aug 2009 5:09 pm

Mickey,

Fulltone's Full Drive 2. (stomp box) You can borrow mine for a while. I use it with my old Strat or with the SU12. Acceptable sound.

Your studio pre will do the best job of all, but I agree, it is a bit much for playing out.

Ron

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 11 Aug 2009 9:02 pm

The Boss Metal Zone should be in the list of contenders

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 12 Aug 2009 5:54 am

Jim P are you serious? the metal Zone?

you dont use that on steel do you?

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 12 Aug 2009 7:47 am

Yup- I built one into a guitar I built a number of years ago and more than one steeler wanted to know what it was- the distortion was quite "tailor-able" to what I was looking for.

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 12 Aug 2009 8:13 am

wow. steelers never cease to amaze me with the incredible variety of stuff that they use and that works for them.
That Metal Zone is the very last pedal I would have thought would be useable on steel. I know youve been doing this for a while Jim so I take your word for it.

I bought a used one for $20 a while back so I guess I could try it out on steel.

Buck Dilly · Post by **Buck Dilly** » 12 Aug 2009 9:49 am

POD XT. Many different useful Overdrives and Fuzzes. All available at your fingertips. Changes adjustable on the fly with no effort. Never been happier. Lots of memories too! Consistent no matter what rig I use. Great for Lap steels, too.

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 12 Aug 2009 11:24 am

Yeah, everyone hears something different. I have a Pod XT and while I think the cleans, reverbs and delays are nice, ALL of the distortions/overdrives/fuzzes are about as bad as it gets.

Anyone want to buy mine?

Gerald Menke · Post by **Gerald Menke** » 12 Aug 2009 11:53 am

Wow, Dean Parks weighing in. I agree, that Xotic effects pedal is great for steel, I would also recommend trying a Klon Centaur. I have used them on guitar since 1996 and on steel since I started playing in 2000, really mellow, smooth overdrive that allows the tone of the steel to come through in a very musical way, even through a solid state amp. Sounds even better through a tube amp of course, but I usually only take a NV 400 on gigs.

Gerald

Jim Lindsey (Louisiana) · Post by **Jim Lindsey (Louisiana)** » 12 Aug 2009 12:22 pm

Hi, Mickey ...
Lots of good units mentioned here and I think a player could do well with any one of them ...

I'd like to add yet another unit into the list of devices mentioned.

My personal favorite, and the overdrive/distortion device I've really enjoyed over the years (especially during my time with Ty Herndon), is the ProCo R2DU RAT distortion. It is a rack mounted device with dual distortions (Channel A, B or Both) and the two distortions can be used together without canceling each other out.

With it I could get anything from the mildest overdrive to the heaviest distortion, grunge or metal effects and anything in between without my steel ever experiencing that "constipated bumble bee" sound that's happened with some overdrive and distortion units I've used in the past.

During my years working with Ty, anything that had to do with slide guitar were parts that I had to play on steel and the ProCo R2DU came through for me like a champ.

Larry Waisner · Post by **Larry Waisner** » 25 Aug 2009 4:00 pm

Hi Mickey,
I use two different types, first I use the dirty channel in My Marshall amp and depending on the size of the place I am playing that usually does it as I can dial it in to what sound I want. Second if I am playing a large venue or outside I use a "Metal Muff" with Top Boost. Made buy the great guy's at Electro-Harmonix. This unit has six knob adjustments and again you can dial it right to the sound you are looking for.
Best Regards,
Larry

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 25 Aug 2009 7:19 pm

One of the most hailed guitar overdrive pedals is the Timmy boost pedal. It's one of those real small, hand-built kind of companies where you order and wait a bit to get one. $179 I think is the price. With the boutique pedal nuts, this one is quite often on the top of the list.

Not making any judgement of ethics here, but just the facts. Danelectro has a new line of pedals called Cool Cats. They have one called the "Transparent Overdrive". It's Danelectro's exact clone (aka - ripoff) of the Timmy boost pedal. Identical circuit, slightly lower quality components here and there, but essentially the same thing. This is a very mild overdrive pedal and it has a bass and treble control. I heard it on pedal steel and it really seems good and versatile. For about $38 you can have the Dano copy, or for $180 you can get the real Timmy boost.

To contact Paul and get a real Timmy pedal, here's his info:

Paul Cochrane - paulcochrane@comcast.net
615-896-8555

To check out the copy, they're all over the place and cheap:

http://www.coolcattone.com/overdrive.html

Brad

Mickey Adams · Post by **Mickey Adams** » 1 Sep 2009 4:43 am

Thanks for that post Brad!..Ive tried several but still havent gotten exactly the gain levels...I have gotten the tone ive wanted using the Boogie Pre-Amp....but its rather difficult to AB them in the rack. Also the Boogie is very noisy compared to the REV and the SG300, and the Avalon pre as well...Still searching!>..See you in St Louis!...Mick

Nathan Golub · Post by **Nathan Golub** » 1 Sep 2009 5:23 am

Last I checked, the Timmy is 100 + shipping. The Tim is 150. The Tim is a Timmy with an extra boost (more like extra gain). The cool thing about them is the bass and treble controls are subtractive & give a lot of control over the overdrive tones you can get from the pedal. Because of the EQ section they're good for stacking with other pedals. They're both great, and compared to the price tags of many boutique pedals it's a bargain.

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 1 Sep 2009 6:10 am

POD XT here.
If you're playing a rocking song which would require OD, is warmth and tone really that noticeable?
I can see the need in some subtle tunes where you're trying to achieve a slide guitar sound.
So the POD does a good job for me

Clete Ritta · Post by **Clete Ritta** » 11 Sep 2009 12:38 am

Mickey,
I've been doing a little stompbox comparing lately myself. When I read Jim Sliff's post here I had to smile.

Jim Sliff wrote: ...with decent impedance matching the inexpensive MXR Distortion+ is a tremendous pedal...

Ive used my MXR since the late 70s. I started a thread here:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... highlight=

along a similar query. Im using the MXR Distortion+ as my AB comparison box.

Just returned a Line 6 M13 Stompbox Modeler (too digital) and am trying out a Fulltone OCD (which I like a lot) this week. I am going to try using my Goodrich Matchbox 7A as per Jim's recommendation. Also on my list now to try: Fulltone Full Drive 2, Seymore Duncan Twin Tube, T-Rex Mudhoney, Boss Blues Driver, ProCo Rat, Danelectro Cool Cats Transparent Overdrive. These all sound like good, fairly inexpensive contenders for warm, tube-like drive tones.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 11 Sep 2009 11:27 am

Just a word of advice about the POD XT. To really hear the amp and stomp box models the way they are intended, you have to run it into a hi-fi amp, such as a clean solid-state amp or a PA. If you run it into a low-fidelity distorting tube amp with a lot of its own character, it's not going to reproduce the models well, and the results are unpredictable.

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Thanks Brad!