Overdrive

Mickey Adams · Post by **Mickey Adams** » 9 Aug 2009 12:44 pm

May I ask which type of overdrive that all of you prefer on your steel guitar rig?..I know most of the guitar pedals do not have the correct input impedance to handle a steel guitar pickup...And I need one for my new rig!!!...thanks for your input!...Mickey

Dean Parks · Post by **Dean Parks** » 9 Aug 2009 12:56 pm

Mickey-

The Xotic RC booster is nice for gentle overdrive, or more saturated.

The Demeter Fuzzulator has the least low-frequency aliasing phantom tone, if you know what I mean, of any distortion circuit I've heard.

Give those a try before you buy tho. Each Steel/pickup/amp/speaker combination really changes everything a lot in distrotion performance... I tend to run maybe less treble than some (on steel). Your "clean" preamp settings are really going to be a major factor in choosing an overdrive.

-dean-

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 9 Aug 2009 1:05 pm

Hey Mickey

I've never found one that sounded worth a flip, one that could replicate the tone of a standard guitar through a warmly distorting tube amp. The pickups on steel guitars were designed for clarity, likewise the amps.

I did a session a few years back where the producer wanted a Lindley-type sound. I took my prewar Ricky and several distortion pedals. The studio also had several pedals; none had the sound. When we turned a Fender Princeton to 10 put it in an iso booth, we found the tone we were seeking.

That being said, a Tube Driver by the Tube Works Co. came closest. I'm sure they're no longer being made, so good luck in finding one.

Dean posted while I was writing. He's got the experience we all seek. Take heed.

Musician's Friend lists 338 overdrive devices. That would be a busy afternoon A-B'ing those units.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 9 Aug 2009 1:17 pm

I like I guess you would call it the old 60's FUZZ tone,In my band we play some country classic tunes,and a LOT of rock,blues, and southern rock,I use a BOSS DS-1 you can dial in a distorting effect similar to the old 60's fuzz box,I play A MSA S10 classic,with an E-66,also use a Goodrich Matchbox works pretty good for me. DYK?BC.

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 9 Aug 2009 2:50 pm

Look at my signature.

Johnny Thomasson · Post by **Johnny Thomasson** » 9 Aug 2009 3:52 pm

Hey Mickey,

Here's a suggestion you might think about. The problem with pedals is that most have only about three parameters that you can adjust. You might look at some of the rack mount programmable multi-effect units. I'm not up on all the current offerings, but I have a Digitek Studio 5000, that will do everything but cut up your steak for you. It's about 15 years old now, and I'm sure there's better and cheaper stuff available now. I paid about $1500 for this thing when I bought it new.

It has every kind of effect you've ever heard of, and some you probably haven't. There are a dozen different reverbs, and within each one there are at least 25 different parameters you can adjust by scrolling through the various menus. I'm not really an "overdrive" kinda guy, but I did write two overdrive programs that I used on rare occasion. One I named "warm tubes" and the other, "blood and guts". You get the idea.

I would imagine you could get a unit similar to this for about what two pedals would cost today. You'd have to put some time to dialing in exactly what you want, but with all the parameter adjustments these things have, I'd be surprised if you couldn't get what you were looking for. It would sure beat packing a second amp just for that purpose.

Hope this helps.

Stu Schulman · Post by **Stu Schulman** » 9 Aug 2009 4:01 pm

Mickey,My favorite is the Boss Blues Driver,Stu

Larry Weaver · Post by **Larry Weaver** » 9 Aug 2009 4:26 pm

Words of wisdom there from Dean Parks, and when Dean posts, I tend to take a really close read!

Everyone's setup is so different. What works like a charm for someone may be disaster for another.

A big thing is whether you're running a solid state or tube rig. If it's solid state, I'd probably go in the direction of a distortion pedal instead of an overdrive. Without a tube amp, an OD pedal may not do what you're wanting. Jim Sliff is probably one of the most knowledgeable forumites in this area. Perhaps he'll weigh in here.

Give this site a look:
http://www.cmatmods.com/

His "brownie" is based on the BSIAB circuit. A very popular Marshall sounding distortion. His "Butah" is based on a Bluesbreaker stompbox circuit and is less gainy. Same as a lot of the boutique stuff out there for much less $$$.

I've also liked the Twin Tube a lot. Quite a few guys around here are using it.

Rick Barnhart · Post by **Rick Barnhart** » 9 Aug 2009 5:50 pm

I'm not much of an electronics wiz, but I like the Zendrive. It's kinda hard to get bad sound from it. As bonus, it seems to really add sustain, too.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 9 Aug 2009 9:27 pm

With my Fenders I don't have an impedance issue, but with my GFI I use a Steeldriver to balance the impedance; overdrives and distortion units (which are NOT the same thing!!) in particular sound awful without impedance matching - any distortion at all (which is not the intended use for overdrive, unless you are using it to drive a tube amp that's cranked up) has the "bucket of drunken bees" buzzsaw tone.

I regularly hear samples of music where some kind of distortion is used without impedance matching, and it shows. Not a pretty sound.

So - assuming you'll use either an impedance-matching volume pedal or a Matchbox (or similar), for overdrive I unfortunately tend to prefer stuff that's a little esoteric (read - expensive) but can't be beat for tone. I use 3 different OD's each with its own flavor: a Lovetone Brown Source (sort of a Marshall stack in a box), a Way HUge Green Rhino (the best of the Tube Screamer-type overdrives) or my Klon Centaur, the king of all overdrives.

For more reasonable pricing (each of those is gonna run 5 bills or so if you can find one for sale) the Fulltone Fulldrive II FM (flat mids) model is the best bang-for the buck, giving you overdrive and boost in one pedal.

OTOH, if you are looking for distortion I'd steer clear of OD's unless you (a s mentioned before) are running a tube amp cranked to the gills. My favorite distortion pedal is the BJF Dyna Red - unfortunately another pricey pedal...but amazingly, with decent impedance matching the inexpensive MXR Distortion+ is a tremendous pedal - I have one mounted upside-down on my 400 so I can kick it in (literally!) with a knee.

Hope that helps -

Jack Francis · Post by **Jack Francis** » 9 Aug 2009 9:30 pm

IMHO..I'd just play through your Mesa Boogie and dial in a good smooth distortion....there I just saved you a buncha money and time foolin' around with stuff. $:\$

Scott Hay · Post by **Scott Hay** » 9 Aug 2009 9:41 pm

I have a Prescription Electronics "RX Overdriver".

http://www.stevesmusiccenter.com/PERx.html

It's not cheap - I got one used luckily.

I used it with my guitar rig mainly, but when I tried it with my steel - I had good results. It's nice because it can be fuzzy, but also give faux broken amp sound. It also has a true bypass switch which I think is important. Put it infront of your volume pedal. Just my two cents - let us know what you land on.

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 9 Aug 2009 10:25 pm

I might get laughed outta here, but after trying tons of pedals and several that have been mentioned in this thread.......I'd go with the Danelectro Cool Cat Transparent Overdrive. It's can be used as a boost or a very warm overdrive. It' has a concentric tone knob to control treble and bass. It's true bypass. It's $40.

Larry Behm · Post by **Larry Behm** » 10 Aug 2009 4:54 am

Seymour Duncan Twin Tube

Larry Behm

Jay Ganz · Post by **Jay Ganz** » 10 Aug 2009 5:04 am

I use ***this.
It's got separate Bass & Treble controls instead of just Tone.
Also ranges from a clean boost to saturated crunch machine and has true bypass as well.

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 10 Aug 2009 5:54 am

Seymour Duncan Twin Tube

huge footprint, weird wallwart, but worth it

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 10 Aug 2009 6:12 am

Mickey, you might contact Joe Wright and see what he uses. He's got a great rock tone.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 10 Aug 2009 6:20 am

I'm just curious (because I've noticed it's such an important factor in having effects sound as intended with steel) - how many of the players making recommendations use some kind of impedance-matching device (Matchbox or other outboard system, or active volume pedal)?

I ask because while with some distortion devices I can get an "OK" sound without impedance matching, I can't get a really superb ( and the makers' intended) sound out of any distortion, OD or fuzz with high-impedance pickups unless there's some kind of a "dumbing down" device in front of the effect(s).

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 10 Aug 2009 6:38 am

It seems there are nearly as many differences in taste for distortion/overdrive as there are steelers.
I've always tried for the Lindley small-amp-cranked-up sound out of a larger usually solid state rig, while there are good amp simulators out there (Roland GP-100 rocks), trying to get it out of a foot pedal has lead me to the Duncan Twin Tube. I keep trying other stuff, and keep going back to that one.
The 16 V AC wart on mine just gave up the ghost, but they're sending another. I'd call that good customer service.
I can dial in two different drives for Pedal and Lap steel and it sounds exactly like I want it to. Great pedal.

Larry Weaver · Post by **Larry Weaver** » 10 Aug 2009 7:45 am

Jim Sliff wrote:I'm just curious (because I've noticed it's such an important factor in having effects sound as intended with steel) - how many of the players making recommendations use some kind of impedance-matching device (Matchbox or other outboard system, or active volume pedal)?

I always use either an active pedal, a Matchbox or one of my own homebrewed devices before any pedals that were designed primarily for six string players. I could never seem to get a decent sound otherwise. The Seymour Duncan Twin Tube has been the only exception. For me, that sounds great without any external devices.

I believe you'll find a Steeldriver is still part of Robert Randolph's rig. Specifically for this purpose.

Lately I've been using the Fractal Axe-Fx and one of the perks for me is that I don't need any sort of outboard device. I can "dumb it down" internally, or in a lot of cases the patches I make sound great without any external device. With a tube rig and standard FX, you'll still see an outboard device of some sort on my rig.

So Jim, do you still use an outboard device with any of your custom made pickups?

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 10 Aug 2009 9:15 am

Jim Sliff wrote:I'm just curious (because I've noticed it's such an important factor in having effects sound as intended with steel) - how many of the players making recommendations use some kind of impedance-matching device (Matchbox or other outboard system, or active volume pedal)?

I ask because while with some distortion devices I can get an "OK" sound without impedance matching, I can't get a really superb ( and the makers' intended) sound out of any distortion, OD or fuzz with high-impedance pickups unless there's some kind of a "dumbing down" device in front of the effect(s).

I dont own one..an impedance matching device that is. Hasnt been an issue with the seymour duncan twin tube pedal. Its been hit or miss with other devices especially fuzzes. Putting a buffered pedal in front of my homemade fuzzface clone actually made it sound really great on steel. That seemed odd to me because I had always thoudht you wanted nothing in front of your fuzz.

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 10 Aug 2009 9:29 am

Why do PSG pickups have a different impedance than a regular six-string pickup? I'm assuming it's intentional. Is it to increase sustain, clarity?

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 10 Aug 2009 5:04 pm

I just posted about this in another thread, but it's actually more relevant here:

Regarding the hot “overwound” modern pedal steel pickups, I’m wondering if that didn’t come about because of the common practice of playing with the VP backed off, reserving much of the throw for sustain. With this technique, the amp never sees the full output of the pup except when the strings are dieing out and there is very little signal hitting the pickup. It seems that players who use this technique would not experience problems with the pickup overdriving the amp, or effects downstream from the VP. At the same time, they would appreciate the fuller tone of a hot pickup in overcoming the tone robbing characteristics of an unmatched pot pedal used in a backed-off position. But someone who tries to use such strong pickups with the VP near maximum would experience problems with amps and effects designed for guitars, with their “underwound” pickups. Also, any effects designed for guitar might have problems if placed before the VP with a pedal steel with a hot pickup. Maybe this is part of the explanation of why so many great guitar effects don’t have the same great results with a modern pedal steel.

With an active pedal, there may be less need for the hot pickups that were developed back in the ‘60s and ‘70s, when steelers mostly used unmatched pot pedals. In fact, Hilton discovered he had a problem with some of his pedals that he inadvertently made with too much boost, and he had to begin carefully limiting the output to unity.
_________________________________

Well, those were my comments on the other thread, which are actually more a set of questions than firm opinions (I'm not an electronics whiz).

Regarding OD with pedal steel. This is related to the perrenial "one good amp for pedal steel and guitar" dilemma. I don't experience the two-instrument/one amp problem, because I only play pedal steel. But I experience the same problem because I play pedal steel in two styles: 1) clean country, country-rock, or jazz; and 2) dirty blues/rock. It's the same problem. You can't get both styles from most amps made today (I'm leaving room for the future), especially if you play the clean stuff with your volume pedal backed off and need a lot of clean reserve power for VP sustain.

Likewise, unless you play with OD distortion all night long, you can't use an early-breakup guitar amp to get your OD distortion, whether raw from the amp or with an OD pedal. And your big clean Twin/Dual/Vibrasonic is way too loud at the point it will OD; and your big clean SS steel amp either won't overdrive, or will sound like crap if it does.

So I guess that's why so many of us like the Duncan Twin Tube. It overdrives its own internal tubes, and you can set it for any volume, independent of the OD tone.

Steve Hotra · Post by **Steve Hotra** » 10 Aug 2009 6:31 pm

Fulltone Fulldrive 2 Mosfet

Larry Bressington · Post by **Larry Bressington** » 10 Aug 2009 7:02 pm

Pod XT, all overdrives are great, No impedance problems!
Tube screamer works great also, what ever your ears like mickey.