Can't lower 10th a whole step. Ideas?

Michael Haselman · Post by **Michael Haselman** » 30 Jul 2009 5:23 am

Mullen RP D-10. Franklin 4th pedal. I've got the rod on the highest bell crank hole, tried adjusting the pedal travel per Mullen, still can't get the low B to lower to A. I also have a B-Bb lower on the same string that's giving me trouble. Would appreciate tips. Thanks.

Bobby Bowman · Post by **Bobby Bowman** » 30 Jul 2009 6:03 am

Mike,
Check the "split tuning screw" at the end of the neck. It probably needs to be turned out a turn or two,,,,maybe more.
BB

Michael Haselman · Post by **Michael Haselman** » 30 Jul 2009 6:07 am

Don't have a split tuning screw on this one. Built in '02. I wish I did. I actually have a split tuning rod on string 5 for B-Bb lower.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 30 Jul 2009 6:30 am

do you have an allen head screw at the right end of the changer ensemble ?
i tune that lower that way on my zum

George Crowder · Post by **George Crowder** » 30 Jul 2009 8:18 am

Hey Michael, I have a pre-RP Mullen and I don't have any problem lowering the 10th. Perhaps you've already tried this but it is the way I did it on my guitar. On the changer end, I put the pull rod in the lowest hole of the lower finger (last hole from the changer axle). Then, I put the pull rod in the last hole of the bellcrank from the crossrod. Lastly, I made an adjustment at the small allen screw which acts as a pedal stop (where the pedal rod hooks to pull the crossrod). Hope this is clear.
George

admin · Post by **b0b** » 30 Jul 2009 8:35 am

If you push the lower finger with a screwdriver, can you lower the string far enough?

Michael Haselman · Post by **Michael Haselman** » 30 Jul 2009 9:39 am

Thanks George and b0b for the tips. I'm headed to Hayward, WI for a gig so I won't be able to experiment with it until tomorrow or Saturday. I'll let you know what I find. No allen adjuster at the changer end, Crowbear, but there is allen adjuster where the pedal rod hooks on. I tried adjusting that to no avail.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 30 Jul 2009 9:44 am

think physics, The A pedal raises 10 , the Franklin Ped lowers 10, the X ( Bb ) lever lowers 10...

Back off the A pedal raise all the way, back off the Bb Lever lower all the way, can you now lower 10 a full tone with the 4th ped ? I doubt this is a Pedal adjustment, my guess is a "finger" adjustment conflict.

IF backing off ped A helps then you have to look at 10 and 5 on the A Pedal and get that "dual" raise functional. Do the 10th string first.

Michael Haselman · Post by **Michael Haselman** » 30 Jul 2009 9:59 am

Tony, that makes much sense. I will test that when I get back from the Land Of Cheese. Thanks again.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 30 Jul 2009 6:24 pm

If the raise lever is moving when you try to lower the string, the lower-return spring is too tight. Loosen it or switch to a lighter spring.

Larry Bressington · Post by **Larry Bressington** » 30 Jul 2009 7:26 pm

You could loosen the 10th string off some and see if the finger is moving further now.
Can you lower it by pushing the finger manually with something?
Do you need more pull?
If so, change 'bellcrank hole' along with 'changer hole.

Bobby Bowman · Post by **Bobby Bowman** » 3 Aug 2009 8:40 pm

Mike,
Is this change something new on your guitar? On some guitars the top hole (the one closest to the changer axle)in the raise as well as the lower actuators presents a problem with the 1/8" pull rods. Try a 7/64 or even a 3/32 rod and just maybe it'll take care of the problem.
There are several other things it could be and I'd be better at explaining them on the phone, Give me a call if you wish at 281-856-9453 and we'll talk about it.
BB

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 4 Aug 2009 7:40 am

Michael,
I had the same problem on my home built steel, only difference was that it occurred on the 2nd string lower.
I had the rod in the longest bell crank hole and in the shortest hole on the finger, giving me the longest travel possible for the finger, right?

At the end of the lower, I noticed how the raise was activated by just enough to cancel the lower, in other words, the lowering effect stopped while the lowering bar was still in motion.
I tried all the tricks we read about; I asked experts for advice. Nothing worked.

At my wits end, I thought I would try and reposition the rod, knowing well that I would shorten the travel for the lowering finger. I put the rod in the next to longest hole in the finger. This worked, with travel to spare. The reason this worked, I think, is that the angle of the rod is not as steep. The gentler angle seemed to make a more effective pull.

Michael Haselman · Post by **Michael Haselman** » 4 Aug 2009 6:42 pm

Thanks all for the tips and ideas. It's been such a busy couple weeks of gigging (yay) that I haven't had time to putz with it yet. Will do so next week and give you my findings.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 4 Aug 2009 10:20 pm

Bent,
I have seen the same problem on a few steels, it's because the angle of the rod is more than the hole in the finger can handle.
Just lightly file the hole into an oval shape, and you will give the rod more freedom, and get the full tone drop

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 5 Aug 2009 6:51 am

Richard thanks, That's another way of getting around the same problem. I learned a bunch from that snafu and was thrilled to find the problem and correct it myself.
Anyway, we can talk more about it when we meet in a couple of weeks.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 5 Aug 2009 8:12 am

The Mullen changer is quite capable of lowering the 10th string a whole step without any modifications to the fingers.

I put it on 2 of them with no problems.

My concern might be the split interfering somewhow. I don't immediately know how and I realize it's on the 5th string, but I'd look there also.

Then I'd go back and reexamine everything associated with that installation.

Try lowering the 10th string finger with your finger or a flat screwdriver per b0b's suggestion. If it will tune to at least an A that way, then you probably need more travel in the pull train, stops, etc.

If it won't make it, then you have to examine all components connected to that pulling mechanism to see what's stopping it, including all pulls on that lever and string. You may even need to detune the nylons to neutral while testing so that they're not causing any overtuning problem. Obviously you have inspected the changer for other obstructions like broken string ends and that you don't have an oddball heavy string gauge there.

I'm sure it can be made to work properly with the proper adjustments.

There's probably someone in your area that can help you with ideas if you can get together with them. I'd be happy to help you myself if we were closer.

Del Mullen · Post by **Del Mullen** » 5 Aug 2009 8:30 am

Hello Michael
Check the changer return spring as this can some times affect this situation. It can over ride the string it's self if it is too tight. It is adjusted on the endplate with the little Phillips head screw. Just be careful not to loosen it to much, because then the spring will over ride the string, it however, Should not be effecting the B to Bb change. For the B to A change place the rods in the extreme bottom hole on both the bell crank and changer position, farthest from the guitar body. Sounds like just an adjustment issue and would be glad to walk you through it, when you are at the guitar.

There does not need to be ANY modifications done to your guitar to achieve such things, always feel free to give us a call or an email and we will tell you the proper way to fix the guitar.
call or E-Mail and we can help you.

Del Mullen
970-664-2518
sales@mullenguitars.com

Larry Bressington · Post by **Larry Bressington** » 5 Aug 2009 3:58 pm

richard burton wrote:Bent,
I have seen the same problem on a few steels, it's because the angle of the rod is more than the hole in the finger can handle.
Just lightly file the hole into an oval shape, and you will give the rod more freedom, and get the full tone drop

Very true richie, had that on a sho-bud a few times!
Ta ta mate!

Michael Haselman · Post by **Michael Haselman** » 25 Feb 2010 7:51 pm

Sorry to resurrect this, but I'm still having issues. I did almost all that is on this thread. Took off the B-Bb change and the split rod on string 5, so all that's on 10 is B-A, and A pedal, of course. I can see the raise finger moving when I engage the lower. I still can't get the whole step. I have all the strings off now, should I just lube it good? It must be binding, somehow. I can take it to Bill Rudolph sometime, but would like to try myself. Del--tried every adjustment on that spring, moved the rod to farthest point on bellcrank and changer. Help!

Mickey Adams · Post by **Mickey Adams** » 25 Feb 2010 8:41 pm

If you cant get this resolved, you can send it to me and I will be happy to repair this for you. In addition I'll tear the whole guitar down, clean it and reset all the pedal stops., and lube and polish the entire guitar...

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 25 Feb 2010 10:12 pm

Michael,
here is a simple way to see if the hole in the finger needs to be elongated:
Take the pull rod off completeley.
Push the finger manually, and make sure it will lower a full tone without the raise part moving.
Get a short length of pull rod, and, whilst manually holding the finger in the full tone dropped position, try the rod in the hole (in the changer finger).
If you can't point the rod at its relevant bell crank, the hole needs to be elongated

Ulf Edlund · Post by **Ulf Edlund** » 26 Feb 2010 12:37 am

Michael Haselman wrote: I did almost all that is on this thread...

Did you try calling Del?

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