Playing Gospel Music in Minor Keys (HELP!!!!!!!)

Gary Arnold · From: Panhandle of Florida, USA

I will start playing in the Church Band in two weeks, some of the music they play for the Praise & Worship team is played in minor keys, I need some direction, playing a minor chord is no problem as I have been playing for 20+ but minor keys make me nur-vise, could I get some pointers from any one that plays for Praise & Worship teams Laughing

Thanks, Gary

Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

I chase down the 'relative major' key as soon as poss
Ex Cm, could be Eb, Ab, Bb or more.
Definition of major key will be a good guideline for improv, but you may need to tailor the notes accordingly. For ex, If G major shows up, you can colour the notes with a B natural note to bring some life into it.
But then again, i'm really not the man to ask! Very Happy

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J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

I am not wiz of theory.
But yes, progressions in minor keys tend to look intimidating as they seem to throw everything we got so used to over board. And then, we have to wonder, why can it still sound right when the movements, intervals all seem garbled up?
Maurice Anderson, when I asked, pointed me towards something that had me thinking for a loooong time and I had to find a way to understand.
The idea I got was something like, that there is no such thing as a minor key. That a minor key actually has a major key hidden somewhere. That major key chord may or in some more intricate jazz situations may not even ever appear in the song. It's like everything is, or should be shifted.
All this may sound even more intimidating than just playing a song in a minor key straight up as written. But let me try to give you an idea of what happens.
The best way, in my opinion to "see" music, is a graphical one (no, not tab), setting all up in a form where intervals are represented in relative graphical distances... much like a fret board where every fret represents a half note (minor2nd.) interval. So, what we want to do, is to setup our song or progression graphically. Once we have that, it would, for demonstration purposes, be helpful to draw a overlay graph on a transparent sheet of a standard (mayor) progression as we are used to with I's, -II's, -IIIrd's, IV's, Vth's and so forth. Once we have both, you would slide the mayor transparency over the minor song graph until the intervals match. The I-chord will most certainly NOT match the I-minor... but all of a sudden we may find how so, a minor song, with an apparently totally garbled up progression does sound right to our ears... it's just fooling us as a shifted progression.
Once we have unlocked the shift, we can practically write a new "ghost"-mayor key over the minor song and play it using our mayor playing knowledge.
You will be amazed as to how the "value" of typical licks, pedal squeezes will get a totally new meaning!

... I hope this is somewhat understandable, to the point where you can give it a shot.

.. J-D.

David Doggett · Posted 7 Aug 2009 12:49 am

Alright, when I first started out on pedal steel back in the '70s, I was totally baffled by songs in minor keys. I once mentioned this to my Dad, a Mississippi Methodist preacher who studied piano through college and could read Chopin and Bach, and could also play almost any song by ear - and he was curious about my instrument. He wasn't a big country music fan, but he was intimately familiar with the genre by right of time and place (his Dad loved the Ole Time fiddlin' bees back in the day). He immediately empathized with my problem and said, "Yes, country music is major key territory."

I started forcing myself to try to play minor key songs (like the Hank Williams son, "Kawliga the Wooden Indian"). It wasn't until years later, when I started trying to play minor Gospel, blues and jazz on a uni that I developed the ability to deal with minor keys. Forget about the major key/relative minor approach. Learn to think of minor songs in their own right. They have their own chord progressions that are simple once you play around with them.

The basic minor key progression is very similar to the major key three chord I, IV, V (or V7) progression. The analogous three chord minor progression is Im, IVm, V7; or i, iv, V7. In the key of Am, that progression is Am, Dm, E7. So it is the same three chord progression as A major, but the A and D (or i and iv) are minors. I don't know what Gospel minor key songs you want to learn. It would help if you would tell us what the songs are. The ones that immediately came to my mind are "Joshua Fit the Battle of Jericho," and "Sometimes I Feel Like a Motherless Child." These are three chord minor key songs.

Your root or starting position is at the appropriate minor fret with the A pedal, for example, the 8th fret for Am. Yes, this is the same fret as the relative major tonic (C); and if you are reading music, it is the same key signature (no flats or sharps). But if you are playing steel by ear, as most of us do, the relative major chords are mostly not going to be relevant.

Here's what is relevant. To go from the tonic minor (Am at the 8th fret with the A pedal) to the iv, you move off the A pedal to the B and C pedals at the same fret. Or, you go to the E lower lever and move down two frets (same chord, different inversion). Then you are likely to need to go back to the A pedal tonic position (when in doubt, go there). Then, from the A pedal tonic minor fret, for the V, you drop down one fret and hit the A and B pedals. You almost always need to be able to make that a V7. For that reason, I have a LKV lever that raises strings 1 and 7 a half-step to give the b7 in that position. If you don't have that lever, you can grab the 1st string behind the bar with your left ring or middle finger and pull it up to the 7th (what I used to do on the Maverick I started on).

Now, when you go for the iv with the B and C pedals, your root for that chord is on string 7. But, since that is an open string, you can't twang up to it with the pedal bends the way you do on the other strings the B and C pedals affect. And when you move on to the next chord, you have to block that dissonant string. To deal with that, I added a whole step raise of my 8th string to my C pedal. Just an idea for you to think about; although you may not have the parts to add this right away.

Sometimes, at the top of the A pedal minor position, you run out of strings to stay on the melody or harmony you want. Not to worry. That's what you have the bar for. Slide up 5 frets and hit the E lower lever (in Am you slide up to the 13th fret). That's simply a different inversion of the minor tonic chord. Now, that is another position for minor key songs. Using that fret (with the E lower lever) as your root minor position, you get the iv (Dm in the key of Am) by releasing the E lower lever and hitting the A pedal. Then you get your V (E in the key of Am) by releasing all pedals or levers and dropping back one fret (in the key of Am, you simply release everything and drop back to the 12th or E fret). You make that a dominant 7th chord by hitting the 9th string D, or by using RKR to lower string 2 a half-step (or whatever lever does that for you).

Alright, now there is one final potential position. Two frets up from that E lower position fret, if you release the E lower lever and press the B and C pedals, you get the same minor chord. But to get the other chords of the progression, you have to go to one of the above two positions. So, as far as I can see, this is not really a viable position. So forget that.

Okay, so you have two positions: 1) tonic minor at the appropriate fret with the A pedal; for the iv, hit the B&C pedals at the same fret, or drop down two frets and hit the E lower lever; to get the V, from the appropriate A pedal tonic minor position, drop down one fret and hit the A&B pedlas; 2) At the appropriate tonic minor fret with the E lower lever, for the iv, release that lever and hit the A pedal, and for the V, release all pedals and levers and drop down one fret. Now, that's two positions for getting your i, iv and V chords. Practice getting those three essential minor key chords at each of those two positions.

Many minor key songs will only use those three chords. The next most common chord for four chord minor key songs is the VI chord. In Am that is F. If you are at the tonic minor fret with the A pedal, just add the B pedal and you have the VI or F chord. If you are at the E lower lever tonic minor position, you release the lever and you have the VI chord.

Now, some of the more complicated R&B type minor Gospel songs modulate between the tonic minor and its relative major key. That's what Reece is talking about. This is simple as pie. Say you are at your A pedal tonic minor position. Just let off that A pedal and you are on the relative major chord (in the key of Am, that's C at the 8th fret). From there you are going to go to your IV and V chords, just like you are used to in any major key - that is, hit the A & B pedals for IV, and hold those down and slide up two frets for the V. At some point you will modulate back to the relative minor key - just go to your open I chord fret and hit the A pedal.

So that's it. It's not as easy to play minor key progressions as it is to play major key progressions, because the instrument wasn't set up for the minor key stuff. But it is part of the amazing serendipitous aspects of this crazy instrument, and how it connects with basic music theory, that the minor key progression stuff is all there. You just have to learn how to get the three minor key chords (i, iv, and V7), and practice that progression in all its permutations until it becomes second nature.

One final setup tip: If you add a 2nd string whole step lower to your E lower lever, that gives the top two strings as minor scale notes at that position. Or, you may have a 2nd string whole step lower on your RKR lever.

Jeff Agnew · From: Dallas, TX

Bill Duncan · From: Lenoir, North Carolina, USA

The tact I take in playing in a group, or band if I'm a little unsure of the chord progression is to first ask for and write down the progression if I can, then keep it simple and play single string riffs, staying away from full chords, and keep it moving. Being sure to play only when I can contribute and enhance the arrangement.

I've played with some Southern Gospel quartets, and these folks always have great piano pickers, they also sing on key and have outstanding harmony. I always come away a better musician after playing with these guys/gals. Their music can sound simple on the surface, but when you get into their arrangements, it can get pretty darn complicated.

After all, Southern Gospel is my favorite music!
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David Doggett · Posted 7 Aug 2009 8:04 pm

Of course you are right, Jeff. Even though I know better, regarding "Kawliga" I reverted back to what I thought he was singing (Elijah) when I first heard the song as a little kid. Rolling Eyes

John Polstra · From: Lopez Island, WA, USA

David, thanks for your comprehensive post on this subject.

When using the position where the i chord is played using the A pedal, there are some other nice possibilities for the iv and V7 chords. As an example, let's say we're in the key of A minor and playing the i chord at fret 8 with the A pedal.

To get the iv chord, you can stay at fret 8 and press the BC pedals as David said. Or, you can drop down 2 frets to fret 6 and use the E lever (lowering strings 4 and 8 by a half step).

To get the V7 chord, you can drop down one more fret (to fret 5 in this example) and use both the B pedal and the E lever.

That gives you all three chords within three frets of each other using standard grips, and you don't have to move your foot over to cover the C pedal.

In many cases you can substitute a diminished chord for the V7. To my ears, that works even better in minor keys than it does in major keys. The most straightforward substitution (still in the key of A minor) would be the G#dim chord that you get at fret 3 with the F lever (raising strings 4 and 8 by a half step). That contains the top three notes of your V7 chord, so it sounds very similar. But for a slightly more "out there" sound, you can use the Bdim chord at fret 6 with the F lever, or Ddim at fret 9 with the F lever.

Summing up this position:

i chord: A+0
iv chord: BC+0, or E-2
V7 chord: BE-3, or F-5, or F-2, or F+1

John

Gary Arnold · From: Panhandle of Florida, USA

Thanks John, David wrote on this subject for me so every little bit helps, thanks for taking time to add to the thread Very Happy

Gary

John Polstra · From: Lopez Island, WA, USA

One other thing that might be useful ...

This kind of i-iv-V7 harmony uses the harmonic minor scale. (Think gypsy jazz.) For single-note lines you can get almost two octaves of that scale at the fret where the roots are on strings 1 and 7. That's 2 frets down from the no-pedals major chord position for the key. (For example, the A harmonic minor scale is at fret 3.) Here's the top octave of it, descending:

string 1
string 4 + F
string 2 + D
string 5 + A
string 5
string 6 + B
string 6
string 7

Here the F lever raises the E's a half step, and the D lever lowers string 2 a half step. I'm sure there are other positions for this scale, but this one is nice because you can get most of the notes just holding the D and F knee levers at the same time. Of course, that's assuming they're not both on the same lever ...

John

Stan Paxton · Posted 8 Aug 2009 3:35 pm

Gary, David D. first posting is right on; I don't understand a lot of what he says, since I'm not much musically educated. But in our Praise & Worship line up we do 2 songs in A Minor, and the progressions are just as he says. One of those is "Dance Like David Did", (don't recall the name of the other), and we use them as a medley, going right from one to the other. Smile

God Bless, and have fun with it. ...
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Stan Paxton · Posted 9 Aug 2009 7:02 pm

Gary, check your e-mail. ... Cool

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Barry Hyman · From: upstate New York, USA

There are two common kinds of minor scales. Using the key of A minor as an example, A "natural" minor is the same as the key of C major -- the notes are the same (A, B, C, D, E, F, and G) and the chords are the same (Am, B diminished, C, Dm, Em, F, and G) -- you just start in a different place. This is called "natural minor" because one always occurs naturally inside every major scale. (Its other name is relative minor -- the natural minor always starts three frets lower than its relative major, whatever key you are in.) And it is simple to play -- if you can play in major, you can play in natural minor EASILY.

Harmonic minor is what David was talking about, with chords like Am, Dm and E7. This is a whole other animal, with a different scale (not identical to any major scale -- A, B, C, D, E, F, and G#) and a much more complicated chord scale (Am, B diminished, C augmented, D diminished, D minor, E major, E augmented, F diminished, F minor, F major, G# diminished, G# augmented).

To make matters even more complicated, most songs that are in minor bounce back and forth from natural minor to harmonic minor. "Summertime" is a well-known example.

One piece of advice would be to just learn to play the chords to the song, whatever they are, and then use your ear to see how you can decorate those chords (with pedals or knee levers or slides) without audibly moving out of the key.

The more complicated alternative is to actually figure out which parts are in natural minor and which are in harmonic minor (again, using the key of A minor as an example, whenever you hear that G# note and/or that E7 chord you are in harmonic minor) and use the appropriate chords and scale.

As for how you play augmented and diminished chords, it depends on your copedant, but normally adding the "F" lever to the chord you get with the A and B pedals down will make it augmented (E9th tuning, picking strings 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, and 10). So adding the "F" lever to the open A chord you get with A and B down would turn it into A augmented.

Adding the same "F" lever to a chord with no pedals pressed will turn it into a diminished triad named one fret higher than the chord you started with. (In other words, if you start with open strings and an open E chord -- on strings 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, and 10 -- and add the "F" lever, you will get an F diminished chord. B diminished would be at the sixth fret with the "F" lever, etc.)

Good luck -- harmonic minor is not simple, but it sure is wonderful once you get used to it. The classical composers loved it because they could get much more complicated harmonies with all those extra chords. But David is right, that just Am, Dm, and E7 will get you most of it. I just wanted to answer your question in a more detailed way...
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I give music lessons on several different instruments in Cambridge, NY (between Bennington, VT and Albany, NY). But my true love is pedal steel. I've been obsessed with steel since 1972; don't know anything I'd rather talk about... www.barryhyman.com

Gary Arnold · From: Panhandle of Florida, USA

I would like to thank everyone that chimed in on this subject, all of you were a great help. The band didn't think a PSG would fit in but with all of the tips I got on the forum changed there minds. It is not that hard to play in Minor keys as long as you do some research on the subject, get some cd's with some music of what you will be playing and woodshed with it, once you see how it works and the Major chords and the Minor chords interchange with each other it makes for some great playing and some raised eyebrows from the other band members that thought the PSG was just for "Country" but I can now add what I have learned to my country playing. If I can help any one with this feel free to email me. With out some help from the forum it would have been harder than it was. THANKS, Very Happy

Gary

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