We're Building a REAL Steel Guitar

Lynn Oliver · Post by **Lynn Oliver** » 27 Jun 2009 12:29 pm

Good point. More thermal mass will take longer to change temperatures.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 27 Jun 2009 4:47 pm

Lynn and Tom: You're both right. The rate of expansion of any metal doesn't change with its dimensions; but thicker metal will change slower because of the ratio of surface area to volume. You could think of the heat penetrating the metal at a certain rate until the centre is at the same temperature as the surface. The other thing to consider is that the strings and the metal will expand at the same time, so it could be argued that the coefficient of expansion of the steel strings is closer to that of the steel body than to that of wood or bakelite, so maybe it will stay in tune better than with a wooden body. It'll be interesting to find out.

It's a similar comparison to that between a wooden-bodied Dobro and a metal-bodied National.

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 27 Jun 2009 6:41 pm

Which alloy of stainless are you using Alan?? I know there are numerous types of stainless, like 300 and 400 series etc.

Philip Bender · Post by **Philip Bender** » 27 Jun 2009 11:34 pm

Hey Alan,
The sketch I was referring to is on the "finished dbl 10" article, on the 2d page, and is of a doubleneck sheet metal guitar. Just thought you might be interested.
Phil

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 28 Jun 2009 3:56 am

Right now we're mocking one up to see how it sounds.

I've been playing a hollow aluminum Telecaster for a few months now, and I can assure you that a lack of treble or "bite" is NOT going to be a problem.

Are you looking to sell these things, possibly? It seems as though the employees are musically-inclined.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 28 Jun 2009 11:18 am

Philip Bender wrote:...The sketch I was referring to is on the "finished dbl 10" article, on the 2d page, and is of a doubleneck sheet metal guitar...

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... l&start=25
When I get to the stage of a double-necked instrument I'll probably have to use a profile something like that. We can cut any size and shape, but we're limited by the number of compound angles we can put in using a press brake. That's why we decided to make the back separate instead of all out of one piece of metal. You can't bend a complete box because on the third bend it gets in the way of itself.

Bill Creller wrote:Which alloy of stainless are you using Alan?? I know there are numerous types of stainless, like 300 and 400 series etc.

I'll find out, Bill. I'm just an accountant.

David Mason wrote:
Right now we're mocking one up to see how it sounds.
I've been playing a hollow aluminum Telecaster for a few months now, and I can assure you that a lack of treble or "bite" is NOT going to be a problem. Are you looking to sell these things, possibly? It seems as though the employees are musically-inclined.

I expect the tone to be purer than with wood, with fewer overtones, as the material is more uniform. It remains to be seen whether the steel will absorb vibration or amplify it. Steel is a lot more dense than aluminium. I don't know whether we'll end up selling them. If we did we'd have to end up paying the company for the use of their laser, and that could make them prohibitively expensive. At this stage we'll play it by ear.

Lynn Oliver · Post by **Lynn Oliver** » 28 Jun 2009 11:29 am

My Cruztone is basically a sandwich of metal plates with wood in the center, and it sounds quite good. Perhaps you could use a wood core if needed.

George Piburn · Post by **George Piburn** » 28 Jun 2009 12:23 pm

Alan, really cool experiment !

A few Questions:

1. What is the material sheet size you are working from eg; 4X8 foot sheet or what ever, I realize you are most likely using a cut off, but I am curious as to the standard sheet size your company starts with.

2. Next what is the outer dimension of your cut out ?
it looks somewhere like 14-16 inches X 32 - 36 inches. I am just trying to determine how many pieces per material sheet would be the yield.

3. With your cad set into the Laser CNC Server , what is the total run time on the big daddy machine?

4. What is the aproximate labor time to bend and weld the main body before any detail add on's like the bridge work etc.

5 What was the hour investment time at the CAD computer to do the layout. Including all of the "Oh By The Way's" and Changes so far in your design.

All of this is working up to my approaching your company to give GeorgeBoards a bid quote to do a production run of my personal design Bottom to Top.

MR.Booards

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 28 Jun 2009 5:01 pm

George: I'm not at work right now, so I'll have to wait until tomorrow to answer your questions. The company did used to charge out the computer centre when we first got it, but we found that it was uneconomical, since the customers wanted to use metals which we didn't ordinarily keep in stock, and it was taking hours to do the programming, which held up production. Right now we're just slipping it in between official projects and using offcuts. If it gets to be a commercial proposition it will drop out of my hands and become a company project.

Philip Bender · Post by **Philip Bender** » 29 Jun 2009 1:54 am

Aloha Alan,
What gage of stainless steel are you using, and it the thickest you may use?
Phil

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 29 Jun 2009 12:05 pm

We're using 304 Stainless, 14 gauge for the top and sides, and 11 gauge for the back. I believe the thickest steel that can be accomodated by the machine is 3/4". That would make for an enormously heavy instrument, of course, and you wouldn't be able to bend it on a press brake.

Tom took it home over the weekend and strung it up, and reckons it sounds good. He'll bring it in tomorrow and I'll be able to check it out. This is a prototype, of course.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 30 Jun 2009 7:20 am

Here are some more pictures of the working prototype. The seams aren't completely welded up yet. It weighs in at 12½ lbs. The tuners are just some cheapo ones I took off an old mandolin. I'll replace them with Grovers. The machine head is longer than needed, as I shall eventually fit 10 or 12 strings. The way it's designed the configuration can be changed easily.

Mark Roeder · Post by **Mark Roeder** » 30 Jun 2009 8:41 am

Looks like a fun project. It's got my wheels turning. I'll been curious as to what tonal qualities it will carry. When I used that extruded aluminum it was a very high end sound and didn't carry much low end.

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 30 Jun 2009 9:49 am

The press seems to do a nice job stamping the body out. This only a prototype I suspect, and you will likely have more ideas as you get farther into it.

14 gauge and 11 gauge is pretty stout stuff. It should be quite solid.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 30 Jun 2009 4:14 pm

It was in my air-conditioned office this morning, and tuned to standard G tuning. I intentionally left is out in my car in the hot sun, and after 8 hours of that it was still in tune. I brought it home this evening and plugged it into a Peavey Nashville amplifier. To me, it sounded like any other lap steel. What was absent was overtones. I think the steel is so stable that it doesn't add overtones like wood does. It doesn't have a fingerboard right now, but I'll record something on it, and play it by ear....

Danny James · Post by **Danny James** » 30 Jun 2009 6:43 pm

Alan, I have been watching these threads since you first posted here about your "steel guitar".

I find your ideas very interesting.

It's refreshing to see someone trying something entirely different than what everyone else is doing.

Keep thinking and designing.

Can't wait to hear it!

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 30 Jun 2009 7:53 pm

We're thinking of cutting the fingerboard, nut and bridge brackets all out of one piece of metal. That would mean the fret markings would always be EXACTLY in the right place.

On the next prototype the machine head will be narrower, improving the angle of the strings.

One of the variations will be for a multiple-course instrument, with octave pairs, similar to the lap steel I built for Basil.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 2 Jul 2009 1:48 pm

More progress...

Here we have the fingerboard, nut and bridge all cut out of one piece of metal, so it's absolutely impossible for the frets to go out of position. They're calculated to the thousandth of an inch. Notice the engraving. Eventually the entire instrument will be engraved. Notice, too, how the fingerboard loops around the pickup.

Here's how the fingerboard looks. Notice the lugs bent to take the bridge and nut. Notice also the positioning dots, which are copper inserts. Another idea we have are frets in the form of slots, with a celluloid backing, and a light inside the guitar, so that the frets would light up in a dark location. The fretboard is almost a saleable item in itself.

We've noticed that stainless steel picks up dirt and grease very easily from sweaty hands. Maybe a final clear varnish would prevent that.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 2 Jul 2009 1:57 pm

Alan Brookes wrote:It was in my air-conditioned office this morning, and tuned to standard G tuning. I intentionally left is out in my car in the hot sun, and after 8 hours of that it was still in tune....

As a follow on to that, a wooden lap steel that I was keeping alongside it for comparison had gone WAY out-of-tune when I went to play it this afternoon.

Gary Stevenson · Post by **Gary Stevenson** » 2 Jul 2009 6:09 pm

That sure is a kool looking lapper. Can't wait to here the sound.And your right the fret board would be interesting to sell alone.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 9 Jul 2009 6:46 am

Here are some advancements. We redesigned the machine head to bring the strings more in line with less bending. This is a 12-string variant, which will be set up with double courses.

We can add any number of pickups by just copying and pasting the hole and dragging it into the required location.

We intend to put a second piece of metal in the machine head, with a slight gap between that and the outside, to reduce the pressure on the cogs. The tuners we're using were designed for a wooden instrument, and the metal is much thinner than wood, which puts more bending moment on the gears. If we didn't use some sort of spacers the tuners would wear quickly.

On the positive side, we think we can get away without using bushings, which would be essential in a wooden instrument.

Darrell Urbien · Post by **Darrell Urbien** » 9 Jul 2009 5:11 pm

Looks nice! I like the integral ashtray!

Dennis Brown · Post by **Dennis Brown** » 15 Jul 2009 3:34 pm

Hello, waiting for another update. Got anything for us?

Dennis.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 15 Jul 2009 4:30 pm

My colleague Tom has made a lot of progress with the 12-string version, but he took it home to work on, so I haven't had chance to photograph it yet. We're working on the project most days...

Philip Bender · Post by **Philip Bender** » 16 Jul 2009 5:03 pm

Aloha Alan,
In studying your design, I wondered if you could integrate tabs for the nut and bridge to clean up the assembly. I know that you would lose the one pc concept for the fret board, but it should be just as accurate don't you think.
Phil

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