Volume Pedal Help

Tim Kowalski · Post by **Tim Kowalski** » 1 Jul 2009 11:41 am

I could use some help with using my volume pedal. I am coming along fairly well with my right and left hand techniques as well as pedals and knees, but I am having trouble using the VP effectively. I found myself pumping it early on which I know is not good. I also had problems keeping consistent volume when engaging right knee levers. I decided to put it aside until I was more comfortable with the instrument. I know that using it improperly can ruin otherwise excellent playing and can also make very simple phrases give you goose bumps when used properly.
I am looking for tips/suggestions/exercises that will help me add this important element to my playing.

One would imagine that this would be simple, but like blocking it is harder than it seems to do it right.

Thanks in advance.

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 1 Jul 2009 12:37 pm

just rest your foot on it and try to forget its there, you will start using it without even realizing it

Jonathan Shacklock · Post by **Jonathan Shacklock** » 1 Jul 2009 2:35 pm

Tim, I agree with Calvin, the less you worry about it the better - it's almost as if your subconscious is better at controlling the volume. So much so I reckon a lot of experienced players believe they are moving the VP a lot less than they actually do, the expression part of it being so subtle. Just an impression I get from forum comments in the past. If you look at a pro player's foot there's a lot going on there.

It's really important to get your amp volume set properly. I've made a few mistakes on gigs not taking time to balance the amp volume with the volume pedal.

In the beginning only use it consciously for sustain, otherwise do try to keep it still. If you try to do the expression stuff from the beginning you'll find it harder to keep control of your foot. And don't use it for muting. The tricky bit is coming off a long sustained note to a picked note with attack, quickly backing off the VP just the right amount takes practice and seat time. I recently changed the travel in my pot pedal and it's really thrown my VP technique out - I know I've just got to stick with it until it happens without thinking.

If you are moving it too much when you hit your levers it might be worth looking at your sitting position in relation to the levers as well as the KLs' action/travel/height and that of the VP itself. Some volume pedals are more suited for stand up guitar. If your right leg pivots at the ankle and your knee moves parallel to your guitar neck you shouldn't have too much trouble keeping the pedal still. If you're pushing forward with your knee as you activate a lever you'll have a more difficult task controlling the volume.

I'd love to be able to say I have it down to the "goose bump" level of expertise, I don't, but I know that it's gradually getting better with experience. I think you probably took the right tack Tim, you'll have developed some good volume control just with your hands which will stand you in good stead in the long run.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 1 Jul 2009 3:57 pm

I agree playing without a VP or playing without moving it can be a good exercise. But the only way to learn to use it well is to use it a lot.

First, make sure you have a real steelers VP, a Goodrich, Hilton, Sho-Bud, Emmons or other steelers' pedal. Guitar pedals may not have the right angle, taper or smoothness.

When you are playing fast, you mostly keep the VP still at the volume you want, which takes a certain level of skill. Much harder are the slow ballads, where you need to learn how to jerk it back to the same place for each attack without completely muting the attack, and smoothly increase to match the die-off of the strings for a steady sustain, rather than a swell. This is a very difficult technique to do well. The place you start from should be around 1/3 to 1/2 of the throw, the rest being reserved for sustain. That is one reason you need a powerful amp for steel - you are starting your notes with the pedal cutting 2/3 - 1/2 of the amp's volume.

The best exercise for learning the jerk-sustain-jerk-sustain technique is to play slow ballads or hymns, something with a lot of half and whole notes. Concentrate on a slight jerk that doesn't mute too much, and a steady sustain. If you have trouble with coordinating steady VP technique with right knee levers, choose something slow that uses those levers a lot.

Chris Morrison · Post by **Chris Morrison** » 1 Jul 2009 6:34 pm

David Doggett wrote: Much harder are the slow ballads, where you need to learn how to jerk it back to the same place for each attack without completely muting the attack, and smoothly increase to match the die-off of the strings for a steady sustain, rather than a swell. This is a very difficult technique to do well. The place you start from should be around 1/3 to 1/2 of the throw, the rest being reserved for sustain. That is one reason you need a powerful amp for steel - you are starting your notes with the pedal cutting 2/3 - 1/2 of the amp's volume.

Winston book gives an exercise for explicitly practicing this: play a note, let it sustain, VP'ing to keep the volume constant; do this repeatedly without interruption and try for constant volume throughout a repeated pick/sustain sequence. This lets you practice the VP "jerk" David describes.

Tim Kowalski · Post by **Tim Kowalski** » 2 Jul 2009 5:59 am

Thanks for the help. I will get the Winnie Winston book out and experiment with the other suggestions too.
I guess like everything else in learning this instrument, it is mostly about seat time. It was not that long ago that I had to look under the guitar to find the pedals.

I have a Goodrich L-120 pedal and a couple of nice Peavey steel amps. (Session 500 and Vegas 400) I should be good to go.

Larry Bressington · Post by **Larry Bressington** » 4 Jul 2009 1:06 pm

Tim, you might just check out the angle of your VP as far as the mid-way part. Is it shutting off all the way when off, you dont want a cramped half way feel to the VP.
If all is good, practice moving the knee levers left and right by just picking the guitar open, and see how much your right foot is moving around during the knee placements.
Might need more info as to what seat you use, etc, height etc etc.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 4 Jul 2009 2:30 pm

And if you also play 6-string, sit at your steel and run the 6er through the pedal.

Rick Myrland · Post by **Rick Myrland** » 6 Jul 2009 3:54 am

"It's really important to get your amp volume set properly. I've made a few mistakes on gigs not taking time to balance the amp volume with the volume pedal."

What exactly does his mean and how do you do it?

Jonathan Shacklock · Post by **Jonathan Shacklock** » 6 Jul 2009 5:30 am

Rick, I don't want to represent myself as an expert but I'm wrestling with volume pedal issues at the moment so I've been thinking about it recently and I'm happy to pass on my opinions for what they're worth.

Firstly if your amp is micced or direct to the PA I believe it's a good idea not to change your amp volume after the sound check if you can help it. The sound guy is going to have a hard enough time looking after your sound out front as it is.

As David says, your starting position with the volume pedal should be around 1/3 to 1/2 of the throw, this is your optimum 'neutral' volume for most picked notes and you want to train your foot to come back to that position almost as if you have a helper spring and a feel stop on your ankle.

...Maybe not

If you get the amp volume set for a good on stage balance with the VP at 'neutral' you shouldn't have any problems. If, and as a newbie to gigging on PSG I've done this recently, you try to give the sound man an idea of your volume pedal's range while you twiddle nervously with your master volume you could be heading for a poor sound. If the amp is too loud in relation to the pedal you'll probably back off the VP during the gig and, this goes especially for pot pedals, end up with a thin tone (albeit with endless potential sustain). Too quiet and you'll run out of headroom in short order. Either way, too much of your attention will go on controlling yourself in the mix when you have plenty of other things to concentrate on. I'd rather err on the side of the former - at least compensating with tone controls won't throw the sound man out too much and he's unlikely to object if you need to turn your amp down.

On that note, one advantage of lining out from a NV112 (as opposed to miccing) is you can adjust the master volume and it will only affect your amp's speaker, not directly the front of house mix. I'm not saying you get the absolute best tone that way but for newbies it's a somewhat safer option for a decent sound out front and a happy balance on stage.

Jerome Hawkes · Post by **Jerome Hawkes** » 6 Jul 2009 7:25 am

thats interesting about the VP-amp set up. this is almost a 'duh' moment, but i had this same thing happen when i had my first steel gig - i had my amp set way to low and soon realized i was flooring out my VP to make up for it - i hardly ever run my amps 'way-up' - i've just never done that - but dave's explaination of the VP cutting 1/2-1/3 of the volume at neutral makes sense now.

thanks for the tips - keep em coming

Gary Newcomb · Post by **Gary Newcomb** » 9 Jul 2009 8:28 am

This question is not so much about technique as actual gear.
What kind of vp do you guys most favor?
I have a Goodrich 120, a Hilton Low Profile and about 7 broken Earnie balls'. The Hilton is great except for the cheap wall wort power supply that will short out eventually. The Goodrich is great exept for the string and pot that must be replaced.
I would love to here someone's glowing accolade of a pedal that's voiced for steel that doesnt use a string AND does not need to be plugged in. I don't mind changing a battery - that can be done in a verse. Thanks all, this is a great thread.
Gary

Dave Magram · Post by **Dave Magram** » 9 Jul 2009 11:51 pm

Hi Tim,
A lot of good ideas here. I think the reason the volume pedal is so challenging at first is that it is operated totally out of sync from all of the other things is doing--coordinating the pedals with sliding the bar, blocking, intonation, etc.

Here's a suggestion--learn "Together Again" the way Tom Brumley played it with Buck Owens. First learn it without the volume pedal. Tom played most of his solo on the same two strings, which takes care of most of the blocking. Tom only used two pedals, which keeps the pedal work simple.

Once you have learned the mechanics of the solo, listen to Tom's solo again very carefully.

The magic is the way Tom wrung the emotion out of every note with his volume pedal--sustaining over the rests, and swelling slightly at other spots to "make the guitar sing".

If you can learn to play "Together Again" with the volume pedal the way Tom did, you will have learned just about every thing you need to know about using it.
- Dave

Tim Kowalski · Post by **Tim Kowalski** » 10 Jul 2009 1:19 pm

Dave,
Together again is one of my very favorite songs, so that would be a great tune to work on. It is also a great example of staying simple and using the pedal to make the hair stand up on the back of your neck.
Can you recommend where I can get good tablature for it?

I really appreciate all of the excellent suggestions and views that everyone has offered - great information.

Eugene Cole · Post by **Eugene Cole** » 10 Jul 2009 3:25 pm

You have gotten much good advice already.

For me finding a volume pedal that was comfortable and worked for me was the most dificult search of any of the components which comprise my setup.

Getting the right range range of motion and adjusting everything for height and front/rear angle was/is an essential, but long and arduous process.

But I have a bit more bad news. I have come to realize that we need to evaluate all of the components which comprise our "kit" holistically because many of the components which comprise our setup are effected by each other. See http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=162332 ; the subject line reads "Verticle knee lever ergonomics" but many of the posts are really addressing the issue of height of the instrument as a whole.

For me; I now know that: I like to set the rear legs a bit higher higher than the front legs, I can sit a little higher with the legs adjusted in this manner (easier on my hips joints), and the full-attenuation position on most volume pedals is too far back to realize a comfortable position. I also have also made peace with the realization that I have never figured out how to use any RKV without messing with the volume pedal.

But the one piece of advice I can offer regarding technique is to ignore the volume pedal as best as you can & focus on using your hands and knees. When you are not ignoring the VP focus on keeping it still.

Andy Sandoval · Post by **Andy Sandoval** » 10 Jul 2009 3:39 pm

Tim, go to Jeff Newman's website here and order his tab for "Together Again". It's awesome.

Dave Magram · Post by **Dave Magram** » 10 Jul 2009 7:09 pm

Tim,
I agree with you on Together Again--it is Tom's most famous solo.

There is tablature for it on the "Rebel™, Ricky and Jeffs' MP3 Audio Clips And Tab" website at:
http://users.interlinks.net/rebel/steel/steel.html

Together Again is on the 1964 page:
http://users.interlinks.net/rebel/steel/1964.html

From eyeballing it, the tab looks reasonably accurate--certainly enough to get started.

Just work one line at a time with the volume pedal and make it sound as much like Tom as you can.

- Dave

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