Michael Jackson - Dead at 50

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 29 Jun 2009 7:08 pm

He makes Elvis look real good.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 29 Jun 2009 7:51 pm

Speaking of Elvis... his popularity and sales soared in the years after his death. His "brand" is worth far more now than when he was alive. The same thing will certainly happen with Michael Jackson. His debts will be paid in no time, and the heirs (hopefully his three kids) will be set for life. It's all profit now, and no more wild spending. Lisa Marie Presley was the sole heir to Elvis' estate. In 2004 she sold the rights to her father's name and image for $100 Million. In 2007 the Elvis estate earned $49 Million. Michael Jackson's estate is on track to earn even more.

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 29 Jun 2009 8:08 pm

Doug, I saw that photo and I didn't know whether to laugh or what to think. It seemed so off-the-wall and confused that it appeared to be a relief from all the distress.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 29 Jun 2009 8:13 pm

Thanks Chas, I had to look at the picture for a few seconds to figure it out.

LJ Eiffert · Post by **LJ Eiffert** » 29 Jun 2009 8:24 pm

This is just crazy!I'm sure when it's all said and done,none of you with all your own opinions & words will be in a courtroom over this matter.I hope in God name people let your name RIP when you die and not look into your dark side of how good or bad you was.Sincerely in Music & please just have a little heart even if it kills you.Leo J.Eiffert,Jr.

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 30 Jun 2009 5:54 am

If he was just self destructive and did himself in like Elvis and others we can name,it would simply be a sad ending to an amazing career. But he did more than that. He was an aggressive gay pedophile who with his mythic image and childish persona,methodically seduced dozens of young boys,thought it was perfectly ok and had the money to get away with it. There's some good reasons why he was that way but as a parent I just can't get past it and "remember the good". What about the damage he did to those kids? Sorry - I'm glad his troubled,sorry life is over and I do hope he rests in peace.

Ga McDonnell · Post by **Ga McDonnell** » 30 Jun 2009 7:40 am

Those are pretty powerful charges. At this point I've never heard any valid evidence from anyone who wasn't standing beside a hired lawyer with a demand for big bucks. And most accusers turn out to be bottom feeders of society themselves.

However, one thing is for sure. There's money to be made now by running to a book publisher with any kind of expose, and collecting a big upfront advance if you can promise to blow the lid of MJ's life. (Of course it wouldn't be worth squat to write a book about his good deeds or interview people he had helped throughout his life).

I guess the "fun" is just beginning.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 30 Jun 2009 8:33 am

I've never heard any valid evidence from anyone who wasn't standing beside a hired lawyer with a demand for big bucks. And most accusers turn out to be bottom feeders of society themselves.

I agree. The accusers have been discredited. MJ admitted his fondness for young boys, but he claimed it was never sexual, more like a childhood friendship. Has anyone considered that this might actually be true? He was certainly weird enough, different enough, and childish enough to act like that. It's possible that he was asexual his entire life. No one has proven yet that he actually abused any boys. Where's the proof? Just a lot of trumped-up claims from dirtbags looking for money.

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 30 Jun 2009 9:55 am

The problem with these kind of accusations is that you're basically "guilty until proven innocent", because of their very nature and the victims being the most defenseless among us who needs all the help they can possibly get.

I'm 50, single, no kids, being fed up with the 'party scene' I live a pretty reclusive life and most of my social activities are music related.

And, oops, I teach 20+ guitar students between the age of 10 and 20 every week, in the privacy of my own home/studio.
If one or two of those should decide - for whatever weird reason - to go home to their parents and claim I had "done something" I wouldn't have had a chance.
Fortunately I'm not rich.

And maybe that's how it needs to be, charges like that HAS to be taken dead seriously and no one should get away with abusing kids, but if you're falsely accused then you're in much bigger trouble than if the accusations are about another type of crime.

Maybe MJ's guilty of everything he's accused of, maybe not. At best he was extremely foolish and acted highly inappropriate, at worst he's guilty of one of the worst crimes imaginable.
But I can't understand how we, a bunch of steel guitarists on a web forum, can pretend to have the insight and knowledge to judge him one way or another.

Dave Harmonson · Post by **Dave Harmonson** » 30 Jun 2009 10:53 am

Well said Steinar. I agree completely.

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 30 Jun 2009 11:47 am

dito

Johan

Scott Shipley · Post by **Scott Shipley** » 30 Jun 2009 12:34 pm

LJ Eiffert wrote:This is just crazy!I'm sure when it's all said and done,none of you with all your own opinions & words will be in a courtroom over this matter.I hope in God name people let your name RIP when you die and not look into your dark side of how good or bad you was.Sincerely in Music & please just have a little heart even if it kills you.Leo J.Eiffert,Jr.

I agree with Leo. WELL SAID.
Did I just say that???

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 30 Jun 2009 1:32 pm

But I can't understand how we, a bunch of steel guitarists on a web forum, can pretend to have the insight and knowledge to judge him one way or another.

This particular steel player's wife worked for the Jackson family and Motown Records as did I in the early 1990s,and worked as Diana Ross' personal assistant in the 70s and many well known Motown performers are long time family friends. My wife had the inside scoop on legal strategy sessions in the Jackson home in Encino in 1993 - the first time he got busted. Everything revolved around getting Michael out of the country,finding the best lawyers money could buy,providing big time hush money to the abused kids parents,getting them to sign ironclad non-disclosure agreements and trying to get Michael to get married - to a woman. Like I said in an earlier post,I know more than I can relate in a family forum. My wife was set to become Jackie Jackson's personal assistant after that but was just too trashed out by the whole Jackson scene to continue. It's pretty common knowlege what his proclivities were among those who were around him and those who played in his band. I know two people who traveled the world with him for two years and you ought to hear their experiences. Again,he's gone now and all this will come out as time goes by. I guess I'm just one of the few who are not buying into the great Michael Jackson.

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 30 Jun 2009 2:08 pm

Michael Johnstone wrote:My wife had the inside scoop on legal strategy sessions in the Jackson home in Encino in 1993 - the first time he got busted.

So, did she forward this info to the prosecutors and/or testify during the '05 trial? Just curious...

As for "buying into the great Michael Jackson" - I don't even care much for his music, much less his 'public persona', but I recognize his amazing talent and influence. I just believe it's common decency to at least allow the body to get cold and into the ground before jumping all over someone, that's all.

I'm sure there'll be tons of sh*t hitting the fan and plenty of opportunities for all the 'inside stories' to be publizised later....

LJ Eiffert · Post by **LJ Eiffert** » 30 Jun 2009 2:18 pm

Hey Michael,I think you and your wife should go on Larry Kings CNN show and cash in on what you two real know about " Micheal Jackson's dark side of life that you put out there,if it's the truth! I would bet Motown will love you both forever.Like I said,this is CRAZY! This forum ain't gonna get you fame Micheal. Now,you got me wondering what Steve thinks. Sincerely in Music,Leo J.Eiffert,Jr.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 30 Jun 2009 4:03 pm

Um...in M. Johnstone's defense, from the technical legal standpoint, what he and his wife have is hearsay. It's worth nothing legally, except possibly to steer toward real witnesses, which are probably known anyway. So there's not much point in him "coming forward."

On the other hand, public opinion is not bound by courtroom rules. This kind of insider information certainly tends to indicate that there is much more to this than tabloid lies and blackmailers. Just in terms of our gratuitous Forum discussion, this would seem to be valuable insider information closer to the truth than anything we will get from the media.

Still, even with Mike's info, it's not clear to me if MJ was just inappropriately affectionate with his little pals, or more. It's such a touchy subject that even just slightly crossing the line with mere affection can get you stigmatized and prosecuted. There are some sad cases of apparently innocent teachers having their lives ruined by these witch-hunts.

Then there is the strange but true fact that no matter how much of a monster someone might be, their art can be great, and in no way reflect their personal faults. Some people can get past that, some can't.

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 30 Jun 2009 4:47 pm

1 - Whatever he did/didn't do is a case for the courtrooms and not web forum speculations, hearsay, and gossip. There's nothing any of us can do about it anyway

2 - Whatever he did/didn't do, he won't be able to do it again

3 - What we do know is his work as a recording and performing artist who incidentally sold 750 million records.
Perhaps this is what we should be focusing on, on a music forum made up by musicians and not professional lawyers and therapists

Well, that's how I see it anyway....

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 30 Jun 2009 5:27 pm

I'll bow out of this thread at this point. I don't think I should say any more about this.

LJ Eiffert · Post by **LJ Eiffert** » 30 Jun 2009 5:54 pm

Hello Michael Johnstone,My point to you is and was that you added an amaze as to what you & your wife really know & that you know for sure what you are talking about against " Michael Jackson ". I Just hope for your sake,it's hear say.Cause again if it's the truth go on Larry King CNN Show and help us all make it through the night. Please be careful with them air brush words. This is Crazy to stand up aginst what God has already taken care of. His(God) way!

Sincerely in Music,Leo J Eiffert,Jr. PS: I know you and I like you Michael Johnstone.

Greg Simmons · Post by **Greg Simmons** » 30 Jun 2009 6:05 pm

Here's a Daily Mail article from the UK.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 30 Jun 2009 6:14 pm

Your right, David. It's hearsay, no physical evidence, no proof. The controversies surrounding MJ will probably continue for some time. The media is milking every aspect of the story. In spite of all that, I believe that the controversies will eventually fade into history, and the music, the dancing, the entertainment, the images will live on.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 30 Jun 2009 7:31 pm

Does anyone here think that a grown man inviting stranger's children to "sleep over" in his bed is morally justifiable? He admitted this on national media! Thats NOT speculation. Does anyone here think his performance career trumps that imorality? Does anyone here think buying someone's silence is guilt free? Please let us know who you are. Michael, thanks for relating your wife's experiences. I'm sorry that you can't educate these people on here more from your wife's personal experience. This is a freak show.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 30 Jun 2009 8:07 pm

chas, I'm still baffled. You saw that photo where? Was it published or posted somewhere somehow in connection with Michael Jackson's death? As some sort of satirical comment, or...or what??? Or not in connection? Is it funny in some way? Even outside of the Jackson topic? A comment on the media? On celebrity? On society? Or did you just throw it in as an off-the-wall non sequitur? A la Arch's "I like kittens"? I truly don't get it!

Re Michael Jackson: The sentiments expressed here that separate his personal history (WHATEVER one's take on it) from his "artistic legacy", and elevate the artistic legacy to legend status, puzzle me. I'll separate out the personal issues, too, but I must say I can't believe that even thirty years from now anyone will remember or care especially about any of his music, except as pure nostalgia for their youth. It was pretty well made commercial dreck of the era it happened in, and no more, IMHO. Is "Billie Jean" or "Beat It" really on some higher artistic plane than "Brick House" or "Superfreak"?

LJ Eiffert · Post by **LJ Eiffert** » 30 Jun 2009 8:46 pm

Hello Kevin Hatton,The Freak Show! You're right this is all Crazy.But,My point is if Michael's wife and he knew all what he commit to saying to us on this forum of " The Dark Side Of Michael Jackson ",why didn't they go to the right authority to show gratitude to protect them little children. Same as Brain Oxman now going to do something about Michael after the misfortune. So,all have the right to ones opinions of what should have been from what could have been helped if those so call friends who loved him (Michael Jackson) so much would have took the bull my the horns or it should have been Michael by his hands and gave him the love he really needed. This just makes me know life is what it is.You're only as good as you are to yourself first. Welcome to the freak show Kevin.Sincerely in Music,Leo J.Eiffert,Jr.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 30 Jun 2009 8:59 pm

It is understandable that Mr. Johnstone, or anybody else armed with that knowledge, would not want to sabotage his own life by being the one to take on the cause of exposing MJ. There is a time when you must protect you and yours, and simply move on with the knowledge that there's nothing you can do. Obviously, the court cases show that others were trying to expose him, and lots of money changed hands in the meantime.

Like Mom says - "If it (moon)walks like a duck,......"