100% Pedal Steel Virgin

Jeffrey Kennedy · Post by **Jeffrey Kennedy** » 21 Jun 2009 9:53 am

Wow, what a great forum just signed up today and just overwhelmed. I have a few questions for all you steel players out there. I can't read music but am willing to, and don't know what steel guitar to buy for a starter. Also is there any teachers out there in or around Philippi West Virginia. I have sent a message to Joe Barcus, still waiting on a reply. Can someone here get me started, beacuse right now my knowledge is zero, but I really have a desire to play the Pedal Steel Guitar. Thanks in advance, J.C. Kennedy

Brian Kurlychek · Post by **Brian Kurlychek** » 21 Jun 2009 11:53 am

Hello Jeff and Welcome to the forum.

Finding a pedal steel is going to be a very personal choice. So we won't be able to tell you which steel is best for you, but we can guide you in the right direction.

A little information that would be helpful would be how much money are you looking to spend on your first pedal steel, and what kind of music do you want to play?

There is allot of information here, and a few recent threads pertaining to "newbies" so have a look around and I am sure that your questions will be answered, and I am sure more people will come along with good advice for you.

Here are a couple of links to get you started:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=160553

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=160345

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... ght=newbie

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... ght=newbie

Bart Reed · Post by **Bart Reed** » 21 Jun 2009 12:21 pm

Jeffrey, first of all, welcome to the forum. You have definitely come to the right place for information on steel guitar.

This question arises in one form or another quite often on the forum. My first advice to you would be to invest some time reading as much as you can on this forum. You will get all the good advice you can handle by simply doing this.

As far as what to buy for a first steel, you will get a variety of answers. I haven't seen any bad answers on here. First of all, though, you will need to determine what you want to spend. Student models, as you will find, can be had for a few hundred bucks on up. A decent to good used pro model S-10, E9 tuning can be purchased generally starting at 1200-1500 bucks or so, most of which will be equipped with 3 pedals and at least 4 knee levers, which is enough to keep you busy for a while.

You will also need some type of amp, tone bar, finger picks, and something to sit on so that you can comfortably address the guitar (piano seat, steel seat, etc.).

There are a lot of good steels out there. If you find one you think you might like, you can always do a search here on the forum and research people's opinions, or just post and ask about a particular steel.

If at all possible, try to find someone nearby who has a pedal steel. Ask them if you can sit down and get a feel for it, maybe have them show you some basics. Most steelers are great people, and I have found the steel community by and large to be very helpful to beginners.

I don't know how far you are from Billy Cooper's steel shop in Orange, VA, but I am sure a drive down there would give you a lot of insight on what would work for you.

Hope this is some help. I have been playing less than a year myself, so I am no expert by any means.
Good luck, hope you find this endeavor as enjoyable as I do.

Chris Morrison · Post by **Chris Morrison** » 21 Jun 2009 2:29 pm

There's a great PSG resource in a corner of this forum site -- the "Magazines" link at the top right of the page. The $20 for the set of six "Steel Guitarist" issues is money well-spent; they're a terrific source of specific info, tab, brief lessons, great-player articles, history, and general lore. Combined with the info in the Forum itself (not to mention the many helpful people on the Forum), I picked up a lot of knowledge about guitars, playing, and thinking about steel.

Important note: the mags are definitely dated (they came out in 1980-81) but even so, they represent one of the best $20 I ever spent

Roual Ranes · Post by **Roual Ranes** » 21 Jun 2009 3:07 pm

Yep, as long as you do not own a pedal steel you are still a virgin and just like in the physical, once you possess a pedal steel you cannot return to the original state. Welcome to the wacky wonderful world of pedal steel. There are more opinions than there are members. My opinion: Get a D10 pro level to begin with. It will save you money in the long run.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 21 Jun 2009 7:36 pm

Welcome Jeff,from Alabama,What Chris said is a GREAT idea,Those mags will be worth their weigh in gold.You will learn a lot about the steel from them,IF you can AFFORD to try to find you a PRO guitar,if you are determined to stick with it,you won't regret it,[just my opinion ] DYK?BC.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 22 Jun 2009 1:54 am

Jeff, what4ever you buy, make sure it has at least 10 strings, 3 pedals an at the very minimum, 3 knee levers. Preferably 4 or 5. It is better to have stuff on your guitar that you don't need (at least not yet) than to need stuff that you don't have.

DO NOT under any circumstances, buy a steel with only one knee lever.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 22 Jun 2009 4:30 pm

Mike Perlowin wrote:DO NOT under any circumstances, buy a steel with only one knee lever.

How about this one..."If you're ever starving to death, don't take any offers of food unless it's at least a 4-course dinner".

With all due respect to Mike, when I read stuff like this, I always think back to my beginnings on pedal steel. And while some may need or want a half-dozen or more levers, there's still the undeniable fact that you can play a lot of music with just one. Maybe a prospective player hasn't got $500-$1000 to try and see if he likes the instrument. Maybe he's the kind of player that would be perfectly content doing Jerry Garcia stuff. Maybe he's like James Mayer and wants to do something entirely different. And maybe he just wants to see what he can do with improving the limited mechanics a simple steel might have. At any rate, I can't see turning prospective players against simple pedal steels unless a lot of money is involved, or unless it's clearly not the direction for them...and I don't believe we can know that, most of the time.

As someone who's been there, I can tell you that having almost any pedal steel is way better than looking at catalogs and websites and wishing you had one. I'm no great steeler, but I'd never look down on a steel with one lever, or even no levers. (Simple fact: Not everyone wants to be Paul, Curly, or a Julian.)

Lastly, when someone says you're really limited with only one lever, fire up the stereo and throw on "Steel Guitar Jazz". (Then tell 'em "Fade that!")

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 22 Jun 2009 6:04 pm

Donny, You know I respect you and have sought your advise on at least one occasion in the past, but in this instance I must disagree with you.

When I first began playing in 1979, I used a Maverick which I borrowed from another player. Within 2 weeks of the time I started, I had read about the E to F raise, and understood how to use it. I was subsequently frustrated for a couple of months till my MSA arrived, because the instrument I was using would not allow me to play to the fullest extent of my knowledge.

I must admit, I've not kept abreast of today's instruction courses, but I'd be willing to bet that a lot of it contains material that uses the E to F change at the very least, as well as some of the other changes that are now standard.

Why else would both the Carter Starter and the Stage One have 4 knee levers?

Steve Hotra · Post by **Steve Hotra** » 22 Jun 2009 6:18 pm

Hi Jeff;
I joined this forum before I bought a pedal steel, too.
There is tons of information here.
FWIW, I had some extra cash on hand and spend a little more than I wanted, and bought a used Rittenberry SD 10.
So glad I did!
Find a teacher and take lessons.... pedal steel is a challenge, but one of the best instruments ever invented!

Chris Morrison · Post by **Chris Morrison** » 22 Jun 2009 6:34 pm

This beginner is glad he has both F (E->F) and E (E->Eb) levers! (pardon my confusion over labeling these

) The instructionals I'm using are:

Winston's book "Pedal Steel Guitar" ...uses the E but not the F, I just realized!
Bouton's DVD "Learn to play Pedal Steel..." covers both, F first, then E
Scotty's "Mel Bay's PSG Method" covers E, then F later
Doug Beaumier's great new book "60 Melodies..." uses both, plus the D (D#->D)
Emmons' "Intros & Turnarounds" vol 1 uses E (E-Eb). Scanning through the tab, I don't see any F's, though the copedent he gives has D, E, F, V

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 22 Jun 2009 6:51 pm

If you have a steel with 3 + 1 you might play like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IASxuHcouS4

or like this.

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... ght=emmons

Barry Hyman · Post by **Barry Hyman** » 23 Jun 2009 5:14 pm

You sure don't need to know how to read music! That would be like deciding you want to learn French, so you take lessons from someone who teaches the classes in Chinese!

You will need to learn and understand some music theory, but music notation is neither necessary nor particularly useful for steel players.

And I would agree about getting several knee levers. My first steel was an Emmons D-10 with eight pedals and no knee levers, and I couldn't do anything in Winnie Winston's instruction book without at least one knee. Frustrating and depressing! Spend the money up front -- you will never regret it!

Blake Wilson · Post by **Blake Wilson** » 24 Jun 2009 2:56 pm

Great thread, and right on topic for me coincidentally: I have the opportunity to buy a 3 pedal 1 lever PSG for very cheap. I can't afford anything else at the moment. Now, here's the ultimate newbie question: can I add levers later? Is is simply a matter of bolting a lever on and connecting it to the bridge assembly? I'd like to get started on PSG (been on lap for a couple years) and this seems like a good introduction. Thanks, Blake

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 24 Jun 2009 3:35 pm

I have the opportunity to buy a 3 pedal 1 lever PSG for very cheap. I can't afford anything else at the moment.

That's a perfect example...provided the steel is playable and tuneable. Levers can usually be added, and even if they can't it's still an okay guitar for learning the basics. Right hand techniques, bar control, tuning, playing in tune, and pedal/lever usage will take the average player many months (and sometimes, years) to master.

My first steel was a Fender D8, with one lever on a "D" chromatic tuning, and one lever on C6th, and I played that simple setup for about 8 years. Sure, there were occasionally things I wanted to have that I had to do without. But I didn't focus on those things because even then, I knew the instrument was capable of far more that I was.

So...if there's anyone out there, nearby, with a one-lever guitar, you have a standing invitation to bring it on over, and I'll spend a few hours showing you what it can do, and how good it can sound. I guarantee that'll be lots more fun than having someone else tell you that what you have is no good.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 24 Jun 2009 4:26 pm

Jeffrey Kennedy wrote:... I can't read music but am willing to...

Remember what Louis Prima said when asked if he could read music, "Not so much as it could hurt me none..." The average guitarist, banjoist, mandolinist, steel guitarist, can't read a word of music. Most play country and blues, which are both folk music. Folk music comes from the gut, not the academy. When you've mastered the first three pedals, which will take you about 20 years, and if you have a gift for it, then you might want to study music.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 24 Jun 2009 5:03 pm

Although I'd suggest that someone - if they can - get a 10-string E9 pedal steel with at least 3+3, I'm with Donny on this completely. I think a 3+1 steel with an ABC pedal setup plus 1 lever is enough to keep anybody but the most prodigious learner going for at least a year, and a helluvalotta great music can be made on it.

Especially if someone hasn't played any steel guitar at all - no lap steel, dobro, whatever - there is an awful lot of work simply dealing with bar technique, picking technique, blocking (palm and/or pick), getting physically comfortable with the pedals, levers, and volume pedal, and then just grokking the basic A+B+C+lever setup. I think the most important lever is the F-lever (string 4/8 E=>F), but others might argue E (string 4/8 E=>Eb) or D (string 2 D#=>D=>C + string 9 D=>C#) lever.

One possible advantage of focusing on this stuff before jumping into a whole 3+4/5 E9 setup is that one doesn't have a lot of clutter and can focus more intensely on basics. Maybe this is better for some people and worse for others, but I'd certainly suggest it's better to get going sooner with less levers than delay starting because you have no PSG at all.

There is a Carter Starter in For Sale: Instruments for $525 right now. That's a full 3-pedal + 4-lever instrument. It's a bit lightweight (not necessarily an advantage or disadvantage) and the setup is fixed, but it's certainly enough to get going on. I'm told they even have a way to mod for tall players. My sense is that one can pick up one of these used for that kind of money, use it till you're ready to get a pro model, and then sell it on here without losing much of anything.

I'd argue pretty much the same line about any of the other modern starter guitars like GFIs, Zum Stage One, and others. I started out on an Emmons push-pull 3+1 starter model - it sounded great, but I would recommend an all-pull guitar to start on. I suppose if you have someone to show you the ropes on a push-pull Emmons, it might be reasonable. But I think the all-pull design is a lot easier to deal with, at least when starting out. Just my opinion.

Personally, my favorite inexpensive guitars would be an old BMI or Dekley S-10, with an old MSA S-10 as a runner-up. They're fully professional guitars, still surprisingly inexpensive for what they are, and they sound fine to my ears. I have an old BMI E9 3+4 that I use as a travel guitar sometimes - sorry, I'm not selling it - but a few of these makes have sold here recently in the $1000 range, and they pop up from time to time.

Good luck.

Don Drummer · Post by **Don Drummer** » 25 Jun 2009 5:59 am

I have a student with a Fender 400 4 pedals and no levers. There is plenty to be learned from a pedals down pedals up approach when starting out as a virgin. IMHO 2 pedals is enough to get started. Besides, proper right hand technique is perhaps the most daunting and important of skills for Steel guitar. Don D.

Blake Wilson · Post by **Blake Wilson** » 25 Jun 2009 6:03 am

Thanks for the replies. The guitar I'm looking at is an Austin S-10, which, I believe, is a rebadged Dekley (it looks just like the Dekley in all respects but the name/logo). Would a Dekley S-10 be upgradable to more levers? The fellow with the Austin is asking $350 for this 3 pedal, 1 lever model, which I think is too much (the Dekley with the 3 levers seems to go for that much around here). I'll offer less.

Also, I'm fairly decent on the Dobro/lap guitars, so my learning curve on the PSG would be a bit less than an outright beginner...I wouldn't need my first PSG to be an outright "starter" guitar. The Carter that's offered on the Forum for $550 would be great, but when you've been unemployed for almost a year, you gotta eat, too. Thanks again, folks.

Regards,

Blake

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 25 Jun 2009 6:39 am

Blake Wilson wrote:.... The Carter that's offered on the Forum for $550 would be great...

Check out all that's been written on the Forum over the years about the Carter Starter before you think of buying one. In my opinion you're much better off with a used professional model.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 25 Jun 2009 7:49 am

Bargain if you like, but $350 is probably not a bad price for that Dekley.

If it were near me, I'd have already bought it!

Jan Oelbrandt · Post by **Jan Oelbrandt** » 25 Jun 2009 9:04 am

I'm the guy in the "Bluesette" clip that Russ mentioned above (by the way, a version of Take Five is also on my YT page, played on a 3+1 Maverick)

But staying on-topic: I've been playing for 3 years now, and it's time for me to move on (looking for a U12, following forum members' advice).
So if you're anything like me (a fair amount of talent, and taking time to study), a 3+1 model won't last you a lifetime. Of course, this doesn't mean you wouldn't be able to play lovely music on one, just that feeling of "i could do so much more on a heavier-equipped model"

Brian Kurlychek · Post by **Brian Kurlychek** » 25 Jun 2009 12:20 pm

I have to disagree on 3+1. I have been playing for just under a year and I knew the minute I sat down at my steel I needed at least 3+2

In my opinion those who are able to play a 3+1 well are ones who are well versed in how to play pedal steel and alternate methods of finding chords.

A newby just wants to play along with the tab. Sure I can build a deck using a screwdriver and hand tools but it is much easier and less frustrating if you have a power drill and skil saw.

I would buy that dekley all day long at 350 and put another lever on it. What a bargain.

Clyde Mattocks · Post by **Clyde Mattocks** » 25 Jun 2009 12:36 pm

Yes, having a 3+4 right off the bat is most desirable, but I find that the #1 consideration of most people who come to me for help is PRICE. That's
why there will always be a market for the Mavericks.
I have one here that I have adjusted for a guitar
player who only wants to do a few steel things with
his band and has no interest in playing the classic
steel repertoire. He is typical in that I see ten
of him for every serious would be steel student.

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Re: 100% Pedal Steel Virgin

virgins with one knee lever