Which lever lowers your E's?

Eric Philippsen · Post by **Eric Philippsen** » 16 Jun 2009 5:51 am

When I started, my Sho-bud had the standard RKL for lowering the E's. I played that guitar for decades and it was what I grew used to. Now, I play other steels which lower on the LKR. I often wish they were like my old Bud but, no, I'm not going to switch 'em around, especially on the push-pulls.

Brian Herder · Post by **Brian Herder** » 16 Jun 2009 6:20 am

My first steel was an Emmons with LKR, so when I ended up with my Sho~Bud, I switched it from their usual RKL.. I went back and forth a couple times, and think I may prefer it on the right, but I am too lazy at this point to switch it again, and either way is fine with me, so for now it's staying LKR.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 16 Jun 2009 7:00 am

RKL.

IMO, the definitive discussion on the issue of F-lever (E=>F raise) vs. E-lever (E=>Eb lower) placement was five years ago on this thread with important contributions by Buddy Emmons and Paul Franklin, who each cogently explained his reasoning for doing this differently - http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/007769.html

I tried every different way and in the end opted for the Paul Franklin approach - F-pedal on LKL, E-lever on RKL. In other words, I put the levers on different legs. Since I sometimes play a universal E9/B6, it made sense to put the E-lever on the right knee so I don't have to hold it in with my left knee while working the standard "B6-mode" pedals with my left foot. If I wanted to put them on the same leg, I'd probably opt to put both changes on the right knee. To me, that rationale would be less compelling if I decided to scrap that universal tuning and move to my D-10s completely.

I think once those decisions are made, different players likely find it more comfortable to choose one direction or another, and Emmons vs. Day setup influences this also. If the F-lever is on the left knee, it makes sense to put it near the A-pedal to facilitate the critical A+F move, so I think Emmons players tend to put it on LKL, Day players tend to put it on LKR. If one decides to put the E-lever on the right knee, either RKL or RKR seem like reasonable choices, and since it's such a heavily used change, it makes sense to put it where it's most comfortable. For me, that's RKL, not RKR. It's much easier for me to move my knee in than out.

Perhaps more than you wanted to know, but I found it useful to think about it like this as I tried out different approaches. I think it also helps to explain why there's so much diversity of approaches among different players. I don't think this decision is made in isolation of other factors.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 16 Jun 2009 7:24 am

RKL for me. And on C6th I raise the E's to F on RKR which is sort of the same movement if you think about it.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 16 Jun 2009 6:55 pm

I like that "F to Eb" sweep you can do smoothly when the E raises are on a different leg than the E lowers. I always have a hard time putting that into words, but I use that change in the same way I use the AB pedals (rocking on and off the A), only on the 4-5 strings instead of the 5-6 strings.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 16 Jun 2009 7:59 pm

Me too. Not only the F to Eb sweep by itself, but also the smooth move from A+F to Eb lowers, e.g at the third fret E major (A+F) to Bm (E lowers), in any of the three-string chord grips. Also, I like being able to add the A pedal to the Eb-lowers-only position without a relatively contorted left-leg configuration.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 16 Jun 2009 8:01 pm

What Dave M. just said. And also what Chris and Brint said about the F to Eb sweep. Count me with Mr. Franklin.

Tom Keller · Post by **Tom Keller** » 16 Jun 2009 8:35 pm

Dean Parks · Post by **Dean Parks** » 16 Jun 2009 8:38 pm

Chris-

Good poll. I am RKL, but I did not learn on a Sho-Bud. I converted, and liked the way it felt for "diggin in" kind of playing, and the the Eb-to-F sweep in the AF position (and for min6 to min/maj7).

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 16 Jun 2009 8:48 pm

Dean,

It's interesting that this topic never came up in our conversation in the Rains room last March. It seemed we talked about every lever but the E lowers.

Where do you drop your E's on your 12-string? I seem to recall yours is an extended E9, so I assume you lower them in the same position as your standard E9 guitars.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 17 Jun 2009 12:50 am

Bo Borland · Post by **Bo Borland** » 17 Jun 2009 2:06 am

RKR - lower
RKL raise
It's what I started with and most comfortable.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 17 Jun 2009 7:47 am

Chris, I'm not so sure the sizable minority for RKL is all a holdover from people who learned on an old Sho-Bud. Like many, I've tried it both ways, and decided I much preferred RKL. While modern manufacturers go with LKR to match the majority, I think Paul Franklin and the increasing number of uni players may have started a movement back to the old Sho-Bud standard. If not increasing in use, RKL seems to be holding its own and not about to give way to LKR as a "standard."

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 17 Jun 2009 8:00 am

David, I think you're correct on the Sho~Bud assessment. The use of the RKL to lower the E's cannot be wholly attributed to that. It's just that most players I've talked to in person said that their first guitar was a Sho~Bud and it came with that configuration, and they just got used to it.

If the gap between LKR and RKL users is not really that wide, I wonder why practically no steel builders at the shows have a guitar on display that lowers on the RKL? Carter usually has one or two, because they have a lot of steels on the floor. But most others may have one that lowers on the RKL, if at all. Coming back from St. Louis or Dallas, I almost have to get back into the swing of the RKL again, after playing all the floor steels!

Nic du Toit · Post by **Nic du Toit** » 17 Jun 2009 9:26 am

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 17 Jun 2009 10:03 am

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 17 Jun 2009 2:15 pm

Good point Chris ...for this very reason I don't usually spend a lot of time playing on guitars that don't have the RKL setup ... so maybe the manufacturers (other than Carters) should have an example of both available at their booths!!

Bob Farlow · Post by **Bob Farlow** » 17 Jun 2009 3:51 pm

Lower RKR
Raise RKL

Bob Blair · Post by **Bob Blair** » 17 Jun 2009 7:56 pm

RKL, but I've had it on LKR from time to time and don't have a lot of trouble switching back and forth.

Terry Sneed · Post by **Terry Sneed** » 17 Jun 2009 8:12 pm

I lowered my Es on RKL years ago, but for the last 10-15 years I lower them on LKR.

Terry

Marke Burgstahler · Post by **Marke Burgstahler** » 17 Jun 2009 10:27 pm

RKL here. I was having some issues using the pedals when my LKR did it...and a wonderful Mr. Tom Bradshaw suggested I give it a try on the RKL - works great for me.

Roual Ranes · Post by **Roual Ranes** » 18 Jun 2009 2:38 am

A guy I know up here, had a "student" model with E's lowered on LKR. He bought an MSA D-10 that had the E's lowered on RKL. He really likes it that way. He says the V7 is a lot easier to reach.
I've tried the LKR and don't like it.

Ray Kedge · Post by **Ray Kedge** » 18 Jun 2009 3:00 am

A lot of players in the UK have the Day set up thanks to Gordon Huntley who was the main man of the time and he set up the guitars in the shop the same way as himself.So I think we all have LKL for lowering the E's.But I would certainly consider RKL even with the Day set up.

Ray

John Polstra · Post by **John Polstra** » 18 Jun 2009 8:34 am

I think I'm missing something, because I can't understand why folks would use anything except LKR to lower the Es on an E9/B6 uni. Here's my reasoning:

The knee that is holding the Es lowered is out of commission for anything else. It can't operate another knee lever.

When using the B6 foot pedals, the left foot is way over to the right, making it impractical to use the left knee for anything except holding the Es lowered with LKR.

Therefore, if you lower the Es with your right knee, you have no B6 knee lever available at all. Whereas if you lower the Es with LKR, you can still use your right knee as the normal B6 knee lever.

What am I missing?

John

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