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Topic: Emmons P/P LKV for '71 Fatbacks |
Joerg Schubert
From:
Hagen, Germany
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Posted 29 May 2009 10:08 am |
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Hallo everybody,
my '71 Fatback is equipped with extra long aluminum coloured knee levers what is IMHO standard for P/P of this age. I'm wondering if in this area vertical levers were already offered as an option by the Lashley company and if they also were different from the later production types.
The reason I'm asking is that I'd like to add a LKV.
Thanks and regards
Joerg |
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Danny Letz
From:
Old Glory,Texas, USA 79540
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Posted 29 May 2009 5:07 pm
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| I had an S10 push pull at Bobby Bowmans a while back and I think he does something like that by having the parts built at a machine shop. You'd need to check with him to see if I'm remembering right. |
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Mike Cass
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Posted 30 May 2009 7:59 am
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vertical levers were an option until 5 levers became standard w/a new guitar purchase. I once bought a used '66 bolt-on 8x8, factory built with 2 up levers, one on each neck. The E9 up lever was a long aluminum like yours but the C6 up lever was the shorter aluminum lever and crammed in there due to the guitar being fitted w/old wide bellcranks which makes it difficult to line up all the rods, etc especially if you try to fit a vert in there. The longer up lever allows you to position the x-shaft for the vert behind the LKR giving it more leverage and keeping it out of the way of the LKR assembly. Im currently installing an up lever on a '66 S-10 p/p guitar and have used the long handle, placing it next to the back apron. Of course this guitar is a cutback and yours is flat. To install a vertical lever on a fatback one needs to take into account the length needed to reach the desired change(s) and stop the lever before it bottoms out below the level of the back apron. Also you'd want to make sure that the 2nd piece of the up lever which the handle itself mounts to doesnt stick up below the apron. This can cause difficulty in closing and latching the case if not dealt with during installation. Placing the 5'16" hole for the x-shaft requries some forethought and measurement but mounting a vert to a fatback is certainely doable. The angle at which you mount the lever to the x-shaft is the crucial step and assures that maximum leverage will be obtained and that the case will close.
I usually use long vertical levers on either D or S bodies as the feel is smoother, especially if one is installing a custom setup ie; LKV, 4th string E to F#. Thats a long pull and the longer lever gives you much better mechanical advantage. Hope this helps.
MC |
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William Kendrick
From:
Bedford Heights, Ohio, USA (Goes by first name "Bill")
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Posted 30 May 2009 9:59 am
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| I have a 1979 Emmons D-10 Fatback. I had Jimmie Crawford install his "Crawford Cluster" back in about 1981 or 1982. He installed the LKV as part of it. It lowers strings 5 and 10 from B to Bb. If you would like, I would be more than happy to take a picture of the mechanism for you. Bill |
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Joerg Schubert
From:
Hagen, Germany
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Posted 1 Jun 2009 1:06 am
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Danny, Mike and Bill,
thank you for your great replies!
Mike, especially your enourmous expertise helped a lot to realize were all the pitfalls while installing a LKV could be. That makes me think twice. Should I do such a project all by myself? I have worked up to now only on all-pulls. The problems I´m facing here in Europe is that you don´t find too many people who worked on P/Ps, I guess. Next difficult thing is to collect the correct parts.
Do you know if there is something available like a LKV kit for P/P with a long aluminum coloured lever?
Danny, probably Bobby Bowman has, do you know how to contact him?
Bill, a photo of your crawford clustered Fatback would be highly appreciated! The funny thing is I also have another P/P from the eighties equipped with a Crawford cluster 10x10, done by the Lashley company. I bought it from Horst Waisznor a while ago. In Europe those clustered P/P are rare as chicken teeth, mine is probably the only one on the continent. But this P/P is of course cutback and has short, black levers. I never got the point with this very extended Crawford copedent and I´m thinking of changing it to fit my needs one day. Same thing here, I really need to find me an P/P expert here in Europe...
Joerg
_________________
http://www.myspace.com/joergschubert
All steelies cons |
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Mike Cass
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Posted 1 Jun 2009 9:02 am
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you can order a vertical kit w/longer lever from Emmons Guitars by Lashley, Inc. Just mention it when ordering. Ron jr will want you to give him an idea of how long it needs to be, but no sweat to get one from them. Good luck!
MC |
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Trevor Fagan
From:
Newfoundland, Canada
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Posted 2 Jun 2009 11:02 am
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My '71 Fatback has a LKV.... I'm (at least) the third owner, so I'm not 100% sure if it came with the guitar originally. The last owner before me confirmed that it was on the guitar when he acquired it.
_________________
'73 Sho~Bud Pro II, '71 Emmons D-10, '75 Sho~Bud Maverick, Guyatone D-8, Session 500, Nashville 112, Sennheiser e609 |
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William Kendrick
From:
Bedford Heights, Ohio, USA (Goes by first name "Bill")
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Posted 2 Jun 2009 3:17 pm
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| Well, here it is - just dug out of mothballs after 25 years. Needs a real good cleaning. Here are 3 pictures of the underside of the E9th, followed by the copedent (if I can figure this out). I hope this helps. If not, let me know how I CAN help. Bill |
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William Kendrick
From:
Bedford Heights, Ohio, USA (Goes by first name "Bill")
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Posted 2 Jun 2009 3:26 pm
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| Well, I guess that didn't work. If you can help me figure out how, I will send you the pictures and the copedent. Bill |
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Joerg Schubert
From:
Hagen, Germany
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Posted 2 Jun 2009 10:11 pm
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Bill,
thank you so much for your time to take the photos. Have just sent you a PM with my mail address. Maybe you can send the photos to this address. I'll put the photos to the forum afterwards.
Thank
Joerg
_________________
http://www.myspace.com/joergschubert
All steelies cons |
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William Kendrick
From:
Bedford Heights, Ohio, USA (Goes by first name "Bill")
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Posted 3 Jun 2009 2:02 am
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Joerg.
You have an email from me with pictures and copedent attached.
Bill
_________________
1979 Emmons D-10 P/P 8X5, Lawrence L-710 Pickups, Li'l Izzy, Telonics Volume Pedal, Goodrich Super Sustain Matchbox, Lexicon MX200 Dual Reverb Effects Processor, Peavey Vegas 400 Amplifier. |
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Joerg Schubert
From:
Hagen, Germany
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Posted 7 Jun 2009 10:17 am
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Hello dear steelers,
here is Bill's steel under carrige
Obviously his steel is equipped with the newer black, shorter levers. It looks like that the LKV is located far away from the fatback to get as much as possible travel for the lever. What is also interesting, the lever is mounted on a cross shaft pivoted on two brackets without drilling into the steels wooden case. Bill, did I interpret that correctly from your photos?
Thank you Bill for the photo.
Joerg
_________________
http://www.myspace.com/joergschubert
All steelies cons |
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Waisznor
From:
Berlin, Germany
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Posted 7 Jun 2009 12:08 pm
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Hello Jörg,
I have an original long and black LKV on my PP; but it isn´t a Fatback!
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Horst Waisznor |
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William Kendrick
From:
Bedford Heights, Ohio, USA (Goes by first name "Bill")
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Posted 7 Jun 2009 12:18 pm
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You are correct, Jeorg, in your interpretation of the picture. Installed by the man himself - Jimmie Crawford. Bill
_________________
1979 Emmons D-10 P/P 8X5, Lawrence L-710 Pickups, Li'l Izzy, Telonics Volume Pedal, Goodrich Super Sustain Matchbox, Lexicon MX200 Dual Reverb Effects Processor, Peavey Vegas 400 Amplifier. |
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Joerg Schubert
From:
Hagen, Germany
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Posted 13 Jun 2009 11:29 pm
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Hi all,
I still hunting to find myself a long aluminum LKV.
Horst, great to hear from you. I still have your 10*10 P/P and I'm going to change the copedent to my needs soon. So I need to find myself a P/P specialist here in Europe. Do you know someone who is able and willing to change the copedent on a 10*10?
Joerg |
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Waisznor
From:
Berlin, Germany
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Posted 14 Jun 2009 9:49 am
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Joerg,
I would do it by myself. There is enough hardware in this steel to change the setup to your specs. But make a carefully planning!!
IMHO the best P/P specialist in Germany is our Forum member Rainer Hackstätte. He lives in Bohmte/Westf. and knows theoretical and practical all about P/P steels. He is a very nice and intelligent guy but I don´t know if he is doing some work for other people.
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Horst Waisznor |
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Joerg Schubert
From:
Hagen, Germany
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Posted 14 Jun 2009 11:31 am
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Yes, he would be my first choise too. But I´m aware of the fact that he has another profession then working on steel guitars. It´s only a hobby for him as far as I know. Changing the copedent on a 10*10 is a very time consuming task. That are the reasons I haven´t had the nerves to ask him for his help. Next thing is that I probably need some parts and a professional P/P wrench might have them in stock.
Doing it myself would be a too big task for a beginner, that´s the reason why I wanted to start on the Fatback adding the LKV to get some experience.
Joerg |
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