Seat height: I know it's really subjective.

Bill A. Moore · Post by **Bill A. Moore** » 26 May 2009 4:20 pm

I have been fooling around with pedal steel for a while now, and although I don't practice as often as I'd like, I have figured out a few tunes. I know I have miles to go before calling myself a steel player, but I can't seem to find a comfortable height between steel/chair. I don't have a pak seat,(I'm not packing anything), but I've tried moving the guitar up and down, adding height to the chair, even tilting the guitar. Everything seems awkward, either reaching the pedals or the knee levers. Is there any recommended height above one's knees for the strings? I'm gonna have to pick a spot and learn to like it, any suggestions? Thanks, Bill.

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 26 May 2009 4:46 pm

Bill

don't know if this will help
but i use a drummers seat , its 18'' from the floor to the top of the seat

Wayne D. Clark · Post by **Wayne D. Clark** » 26 May 2009 4:57 pm

Well Bill. You are doing the same thing all of us have had to do some time in the past. Find the confort zone. How long are my legs do my knees fit under the insterment. Is the fret plate and strings to high, am I setting to close. all that goes in to determining the confort zone. Yes then there is the pedal position and the extension of my leg to the "A" pedal and then where is the best pivit place for my left foot to work the pedal combinations. Oh then do I tilt the insterment back or farward or leave it leval. And we haven' even mentioned the knee levers. Oh also the pedal set up A,B,C, OR C,B,A.

You know Bill, I don't think I helped you one bit but I can see your delema. The truth is each one of us have to make those adjustments on our own, we can tell you what we do but that may not fit for you. That is why it is so hard to play some one else's insterment. it is set up for his or her confort zone.

For me Bill I like the A,B,C. pedal set up with the insterment tilted back to me.

Desert Rose S10 3/5
Goodrich pedal
Peavey 110

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 26 May 2009 7:27 pm

Well, ergonomic guidelines say your thighs should be parallel to the floor, likewise your forearms, with little or no flexing of the wrists in either direction. To get those relationships, you will usually need the lowest part of the instrument (back apron, knee lever, whatever) to just clear your knees or thighs.

Larry Jamieson · Post by **Larry Jamieson** » 26 May 2009 7:28 pm

Bill,
When I started playing, 30 some years ago... I always sat in a chair. I used to tilt the top of the guitar toward me a bit so I could see what I was up to. Then I decided to try a pack-a-seat, since everybody else seem to have one. When it arrived, I sat down on it and thought, this thing is too high! I was thinking about cutting an inch or or off each leg, but decided to give it a week or two. Man, got use to it real quick, and discovered that was THE comfortable height to play at. I'm at home tonight, and my rig is at the shop, but I'll measure the seat height tomorrow and let you know. I can reach the pedals, the knee levers, I can see the top of the guitar well, and my elbows and arms are at a level and comfortable height to play. Plus, I can carry around all my junk in the seat and wear out my back much faster!

Larry J.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 26 May 2009 11:09 pm

Click Here for more about seat height

I like to tilt my steel forward (the front legs are 1 1/2" shorter than the back legs on my padded rear neck guitar) as it makes for a more comfortable wrist position.

A. J. Schobert · Post by **A. J. Schobert** » 27 May 2009 7:01 am

Bill I have simaliar issues...

Why don't steel guitar seats have adjustable hieghts? Not everyone is the same!!!

Get a drum throne, and get a nice one, you will be glad you did, the back rest is an option.

Bill A. Moore · Post by **Bill A. Moore** » 27 May 2009 7:54 am

Thanks all for the replies, I have several drum thrones, and I may experiment more with the seat height with one. I do think my legs should be closer to the levers, but Ted and I are about the same size, and I tried to use it as he had set it up. He always carried a folding chair to sit on, so that's what I've been trying. I think I'll try David's advise about the legs and arms being parallel.
Richard, thanks for the thread, I tried the search several times before I posted, suspecting that this has been discussed before.
Thanks again, Bill

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 27 May 2009 8:28 am

here is another link about this

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... t=#1385849

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 27 May 2009 8:45 am

A. J. Schobert wrote:Why don't steel guitar seats have adjustable hieghts?

Most manufacturers will cut the legs for any height you want when you order their seat directly from them.

I think all keyboard seats are adjustable. I use a collapsible one that cost about $30.

Jim Ives · Post by **Jim Ives** » 29 May 2009 8:34 am

Bill,
At home,I use a drummer's throne (chair)with a backrest which is adjustable.For playing out I use a very lightweight keyboard bench (also adjustable). On my steel I have the neck tilted slightly away from me for ergonomics- mostly the left wrist. I have found that a slightly lower seat (I am 5'7") allows better left wrist position. I have had carpal tunnel surgery on both wrists which was due to windsurfing, so the likelihood of getting CTS again is really small.Ultimately the height you settle on should:
1) be comfortable for YOU
2) allow you to easily pick up the bar for some moves.
I play a D-10, so I wear a tennis player's terrycloth wrist band on the right to prevent chafing against the C6th neck. Some people put a bandana or washcloth over that neck.
When you start packing, I use a tool box rather than pack seat; it helps divide up the weight, and as previously stated, pack seats are for some reason not adjustable.
Hoping this helps,
-Jim

Joe Savage · Post by **Joe Savage** » 29 May 2009 7:41 pm

I've wondered why the seat makers can't devise an adjustable height system..? Seems like it could be done like speaker stands....with a tubing sleeve over the basic leg using a pin for different positions. Or the little push in button type of gizmo similar to a tent pole. I know the pin idea works because I had to do it to one of my seats after I mistakenly cut them too short after recovering and refoaming. I bought some tubing that would fit over the existing leg, drilled holes through them both and put a pin in each leg at the desired height. The only trouble was because the span was wider across, the legs didn't fold up inside as well. But, if it was designed in, the legs could go up or down an inch or two pretty easily.
I'm not a seat builder nor do I want to be, but if I was, my legs would be adjustable!!!

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 29 May 2009 8:08 pm

Joe

that sounds like the perfect solution

the non adjustable legs on pack a seat's is what
kept me from buying one

A. J. Schobert · Post by **A. J. Schobert** » 30 May 2009 3:10 am

David I honestly have no interest in buying a seat that I cant adjust, that is silly.

A keyboard seat is a good idea I thought of those.

I don't know why something like this cant be made, it would seem simple, do steel players weigh alot more than drummers so maybe it is a saftey issue.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 30 May 2009 7:04 am

Once you get a seat set to the proper height, why do you need it to be adjustable.
Except of course, if you cut the legs off too short to start with!

Rick Winfield · Post by **Rick Winfield** » 30 May 2009 9:05 am

I have a collapsable keyboard bench.
It's range is between 17-21 inches
Somehow I've adapted to it
Rick

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 30 May 2009 9:48 am

i'm for the parallel thighs theory also. find a height that is comfortable as you sit square with straight back and good posture. pull yourself up from the top of your head. i struggled for years with inconsistent, slanted, funky seating arrangements, and when i first saw and bought a sho-bud pak-a-seat it put everything in place. i mean, everything got better.

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 30 May 2009 11:10 am

Erv Niehaus wrote:Once you get a seat set to the proper height, why do you need it to be adjustable.
Except of course, if you cut the legs off too short to start with!

of course this is correct if you already know the exact height , but if you don't it would be nice to have one thats adjustable untill you find the right height for you

Joe Savage · Post by **Joe Savage** » 30 May 2009 11:20 am

Oh, Erv......I'll admit, I smacked myself into next week for that one,

but it should be obvious why. Everyone is not the same shape! And most guys don't know the proper height. If my seat had adjustable legs to begin with I wouldn't have needed to cut them. An adjustable leg option could be a big seller! Get out there in that work shop of yours and start crankin'!!!!

On the other hand, I had to congratulate myself for coming up with a great solution for my immediate problem. Necessity is somebody's Mother or something.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 30 May 2009 11:34 am

I see steelers going through all kinds of contortions because their knee levers aren't properly located. If you gotta cock your leg at some insane angle to hit certain lever/pedal combinations, have the levers moved so they're in a more comfortable position. Better yet, if you play a double-neck, have additional levers added so you have separate left knee levers for each neck. (I did that 35 years ago.

)

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 30 May 2009 2:33 pm

I also have the 17 to 21 inch collapsable keyboard seat. According to John Fabian of the Carter Steel Guitar makers, a person of more or less average height should sit approximately 20 inches from the floor. But that is a starting point. What defines tall? What defines short? How high should they sit? I didn't need to ask those questions.

Johnny Baker · Post by **Johnny Baker** » 30 May 2009 7:44 pm

I REALLY DID KNOW WHAT I WAS DOIN, BUT I BUILT ME A SEAT AND PUT SWIVEL CASTERS ON IT AND BY SOME BUMB LUCK, I GOT IT JUST THE HEIGHT I NEEDED. I HAD BEEN
USING A FOLDING CHAIR AND DID NOT LIKE IT. MAYBE THE
COMPANIES, THAT BUILD THEM, SHOULD MAKE ADJUSTABLE
MODELS, IF THEY DON'T ALREADY, SO THEY CAN SUITED TO
THE INDIVIDUAL PLAYER?

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 31 May 2009 5:32 am

I remember my 1st pack-a-seat. It was a Sho~Bud.
When I got it it was a little too low.
I had the top recovered and added another layer of foam. That did the trick.
Whenever I used to order a new seat, I always ordered it an inch or two higher. That way, I could always cut off the legs if need be. I think after a while we have a pretty good idea of the height we need in a seat.
Just sit on a straight back chair and when your upper leg is horizontal, that should be a good height.
You also need to sit behind your pedal steel in a position so that your arms, from elbow to wrist, are horizontal. Now we're talking about the proper height for the guitar, not the seat.
The length of your knee levers is important also.
I got a new pedal steel a few years ago and the knee levers were too short. The ends hit me right in the knee cap. After a while it got very uncomfortable.
I contacted the builder and he sent me a set of knee levers that were a couple of inches longer. What a difference!

Rich Peterson · Post by **Rich Peterson** » 31 May 2009 9:24 am

When I bought my Pak-a-Seat back in 1980, it felt too low to me (I'm 6'1".) I saw so many steelers sitting on folding chairs, looking like they were crunched almost into a fetal position, and it looked uncomfortable.

As a singer, I wanted to be able to breathe properly, so I removed the legs of the Pak-a-Seat, screwed a couple 1"X4" boards under the box, and put the legs back on. Got extensions for the pedal rods and adjusted the legs longer. Tipped the guitar away from me a bit and haven't changed anything since.

Bill A. Moore · Post by **Bill A. Moore** » 1 Jun 2009 4:04 pm

Thanks alot for all the feedback, this weekend I started with the parallel legs idea, the folding chair is too low. I got one of my drum thrones and set it up where my legs were parallel to the floor, seems a lot easier to reach everything. I haven't been playing drums for about 40#'s ago, maybe the piano seat is the trick. Think I'll get one, and if I don't like it, I'll tell my wife I got it for her, but just wanted to try it first. (You younger folks should take note how this is done). There always needs to be a justification for spending money on music equipment. When you're playing out, it's no problem, you'll get it back soon enough, and wives will understand, but if you're playing for enjoyment you sometimes have to be devious.
Bill

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Seat height: I know it's really subjective.

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