Runing in Stereo

Chris Harvey · Post by **Chris Harvey** » 24 May 2009 7:42 am

New player here with tone question. I was fortune to pick up a vibrosonic and have a nashville 112. Based on a few articles I picked up a Boss RV-3 which, frankly, shocked me at it's quality. I ran the amps stereo and OH MY GOSH. Is this just me? Do many others run stereo? It simply sounded so rich and full.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 24 May 2009 8:16 am

Hi Chris...good for you. Been playing stereo since for about 20 years now. First with a pair of NV400's for 3 or 4 years, then a TubeWorks rack mount rig since then.

Great big sound and I use it whenever and wherever I can. I love the way the sound just seems to wrap itself around you.

There are a couple places where lack of stage space makes it somewhat challenging and sometimes use a single combo amp there.

Stereo is, by far, my preference.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 24 May 2009 10:47 am

I know just what you experienced. I used to run my Emmons push/pull into both an old Vibrosonic and a NV400. Huge sound. The two, very different sounding, amps produced a very, very nice sound. I wasn't after a "stereo" sound, just a "big" sound.

Mike Poholsky · Post by **Mike Poholsky** » 24 May 2009 11:27 am

Whats the best way to run stereo, in terms of the hookup from the guitar to the amps?

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 25 May 2009 11:18 am

Mike,
I you are using combo amps, the easiest way it to have a foot volume pedal with two outputs and run a cord to each amp.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 25 May 2009 11:23 am

Although the "stereo" sound is great for Steeler's, 99% of the audience will have no idea or can't tell any difference from using one amp.

Gerry Simon · Post by **Gerry Simon** » 25 May 2009 9:09 pm

I've been playing around with the so called "stereo' effect since the mid 70's using a couple Fender amps and an Echoplex. Today there are many options with all the digital f/x units available. If you set up with both speakers behind you, Jack is certainly right. No one will hear your seperation. If you split your speakers to either side of the stage, you lose the cool sounds for your self but the audience may enjoy them if the majority of your sound comes directly from your own speakers. What is usually the situation, however, is, you are running thru a PA system that is either mono or the soundman doesn't want to take the time to run you stereo. If you have a consistant soundman and setup, you might be able to set your speakers behind you for your enjoyment and monitoring and be miked in stereo. It's hard to beat those sweeping spacial sounds a steel can make under ideal setups...like the quad setup Pink Floyd used to have!!! sigh... Gerry

Jonathan Cullifer · Post by **Jonathan Cullifer** » 25 May 2009 9:24 pm

I think a wider sound out of two amps is only audible in certain rooms and if both amps are mic'd. It does sound awesome on stage.

Lynn Oliver · Post by **Lynn Oliver** » 26 May 2009 9:33 am

The problem with stereo PA setups is that only a small part of the audience will be in the proper position to hear a good stereo image. Most will be closer to one side or the other, and for them the sound is degraded over a mono configuration.

To do a reasonable job running in stereo you have to use a series of speakers and time delay all but the front pair. It can be done in a carefully designed room, such as a sanctuary or a theater, but isn't really practical in most concert venues.

When there is significant backline volume it gets even harder to create a stereo effect.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 26 May 2009 9:50 am

Sometimes you need a couple of speakers in order to make good use out of certain effects.

Delay is enhanced by having two speakers as well as a Leslie speaker effect.

BTW: I think there is some confusion when talking about "stereo". When you are using two outputs from a volume pedal, you really don't have stereo, you just have two outputs of a mono sound.

In true stereo, you have two distinct and different sounds. This has been accomplished, however, via split pickups and so on.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 26 May 2009 10:10 am

I liked running my Fender and Peavey amps at the same time just for the awesome tone that was produced. Forget stereo. Both amps sounded very good, in their own way; however, combined it was an incredible sound. I would stack the Nashville 400 on top of the Fender Vibrosonic and feed the same signal to both amps. The Nashville 400 combined with my old Evans FET-500 was also a great combination.

Lee

Bob Mueller · Post by **Bob Mueller** » 26 May 2009 12:02 pm

How about just two speakers out of phase???
Like a Twin and reverse one speaker.Any one tried it?
Bobby

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 26 May 2009 12:21 pm

I believe stereo is determined by your configuration, connections and fx processor design/patch.

There are several ways to connect 2 amps, or single stereo amp, along with your fx devices for stereo or 2 channel sound.

Back in the days when we started using 2 amps, a common connection would be: Vol ped out to first amp's #1 input. From same amp's #2 input, yes input to processor input. Out of processor device to input #1 of second amp. This was referred to as clean amp/dirty amp config. You would always have your pure clean steel sound in amp #1 and all the effects, wet as you like in amp #2. Then use the volume controls of both to blend the amps to suit your situation. Jeff Newman was a proponent of this configuration and shared the info in his newsletters.

This setup would not be considered stereo, however.

You could also go first into your processor and then a separate connection out to each amp....you could also use 2 outputs of a vol pedal, the fx loops...several ways to connect.

My current connection is a mono input from vp to mono in [Left side] of one of several Boss or Roland processors. L & R outputs to amp[s], in this case, a single rackmount MosValve amp with 2 channels and 2 satellite speakers.

The stereo processing is done within the fx device dependent upon the algorithm[s] that do have 2 discrete outputs.

Many patches that contain stereo, panning left and right, or simulated rotary and 3D programs can be quite evident out in the listening room particularly if you can line out ea. output to pan hard l and r.

Even if that isn't possible, it can still be effective.

Using 2 amps of different designs and/or speakers of different sizes will enhance the effect also.

Audience? Except for steel shows and showcases for musicians, I doubt they would know anything much about steel guitar tone. All they know is if it sounds good or bad.

I do it for myself and the band as well and hope that a few folks in the audience appreciate the effort also. It sounds good to me and that makes me happy and play better. That is a good enough reason for me.

Zeke Cory · Post by **Zeke Cory** » 26 May 2009 4:06 pm

I run a simulated stereo setup with 2 Vegas 400 amps. First into an equilizer for control, then into a stereo chorus into amp 1 just to split the signal, then into a delay and onto amp 2. This is simulated stereo but it does sound much much bigger. Get it all set just the right balance and I am very happy with the sound. All this stuff does get heavier as I age but the extra effort is well worth the added sound body in my opinion. Thanks and good luck. Zeke

Mike Poholsky · Post by **Mike Poholsky** » 26 May 2009 6:16 pm

Erv, thanks for clearing that up. I couldn't see how "stereo" was happening.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 26 May 2009 8:00 pm

I reiterate, some programming of stereo processing is done within the fx device and output to separate left and right channels.

From Webster's... Stereophonic: of, being or used in a system of sound reproduction in which 2 separate channels are utilized in order to produce the effect of 3-dimensional sound.

From Boss SX700 manual: True stereo configuration..... allows for seperate processing of the left and right channels.

RSS, which creates stereophonic sonic images in three-dimensional spaces, are built into the unit.

This is a true two channel stereo flanger that adds...
This is a chorus effect for stereo output...
This is a true stereo delay applied independently to the left and right inputs.

From TubeWorks 921 litereature: Discrete Stereo. Mono in, true stereo out.
You can come in mono and go out stereo or come in stereo and go out stereo...

From the GP100 manual: Two pairs of programmable stereo outputs are also provided.
quote: if you will be outputting in stereo, connect your two amps to the L and R jacks.....

From the SE70 manual: Patch 105...A reverb that is processed in stereo.

Patch 111....a delay which allows settings to be made indepently for both the left and right channels.

I'm sure the debate will rage on endlessly, but these definitions from the professionals who build the audio equipment seem pretty clear. Good enough for me.

$:\$

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 27 May 2009 7:38 am

So to combine and summarize Erv's and Jerry's points, just running a mono output from an instrument into separate speaker cabinets or two identical amps is not true stereo. If the speakers or amps are different (and so produce different sounds), one could consider that the creation of a stereo effect, but not really if they are stacked on top of each other. Likewise, if an effects unit takes a mono signal, and splits it, and creates different sounds in the resulting two channels, that is a created stereo effect.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 27 May 2009 7:46 am

By jove, I think he's got it!

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 27 May 2009 7:50 am

David, you said:

one could consider that the creation of a stereo effect, but not really if they are stacked on top of each other.

If the listener happens to be lying on the floor in front of the stacked amps, perhaps the effect would be stereophonic, but not if he is lying on one of his ears.

Lee

Ernie Renn · Post by **Ernie Renn** » 28 May 2009 12:51 am

Just be aware that you might start playing LOUDER. Two amps can cancel some of the sound out. I ran stereo for many years, (started in '81, before we were miking up everything.) Since I found out the PA is mono, there was no sense bringing the extra amp along.

And yes, on stage it sounds great, to us, the steel player. For a time when the stage was big enough I'd set them on either side of me, facing in. It was like 15" headphones. Incredible! BUT if the rest of the band was closer, it'd be too loud for them off to the side. Experiment...

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 28 May 2009 7:43 am

must'a double clutched this 'un.

Maybe it was just a STEREO post.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 28 May 2009 7:52 am

To an extent this depends on one's definition of 'stereo'.

My experience almost exactly mirrors Ernie's. These days, it's one amp for me. I usually play shows these days and stage real estate is cheap but I found that I DO PLAY LOUDER through two amps. Plus, a band can lose its coherence when spread out too much on stage. I usually place my amp beside me, pointing right at me, and NOT in the vocal mics. If I play a small club, the smaller footprint is great for a small stage and I just aim it right at the center of the crowd. My little 120W 1970 Standel is plenty for most any room.

IMHO, stereo is WAAAAY overrated.

It's really NOT all about the sound of the steel guitar, regardless of what folks 'round here might say. Do what's best for the band and the song.

Tommy Detamore · Post by **Tommy Detamore** » 28 May 2009 10:42 am

IMHO, stereo is WAAAAY overrated.

Count me in on that too. I have been playing thru a Walker "Mono Steel" for a number of years...

I have enough trouble getting an acceptable tone out of one speaker. Why should I make that times two? LOL!

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 28 May 2009 10:59 am

Gee, I wonder why the good Lord gave us two ears?
He must have thought things sounded better in stereo, too.!

Steve English · Post by **Steve English** » 28 May 2009 11:41 am

I like "stereo" a lot! And, I don't do it for anyone other than me.

Not always appropriate, but I do enjoy it when on a big stage (like the one I'm on every Fri. night).

In my 20+ years of operating recording studios, I always utilized time-based effects to give the steel guitar (and other instruments) a more natural dimension. Even in the old mono (one speaker) days there where tricks used for dimensional depth.

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Runing in Stereo

Runing in Stereo

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