Buddy vs. Curly vs. Pete

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 20 May 2009 1:27 pm

Well, just think about all the complaints about the state of country music today (recordings, GOO, etc.). It sure ain't the fault of the sidemen, who can play anything with anybody in almost any musical genre. It's the producers who call the shots and write the checks, so if you don't like the results, yes, it would be the producers you should blame, not the session players.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 21 May 2009 6:34 am

Well, just think about all the complaints about the state of country music today (recordings, GOO, etc.). It sure ain't the fault of the sidemen, who can play anything with anybody in almost any musical genre. It's the producers who call the shots and write the checks, so if you don't like the results, yes, it would be the producers you should blame, not the session players.

Yes Jim, and I do! My point exactly!

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 21 May 2009 6:43 am

Well, then, we're agreed. Shall we retire to the bar for a beer?

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 21 May 2009 6:54 am

Lead the way!

Per Berner · Post by **Per Berner** » 22 May 2009 3:11 am

I think Pete Drake's "predictable" playing on records by George Jones, Tanya Tucker and many others was just what those songs needed.

Another good thing about it is that I can emulate most of his licks and sound OK. That is NOT the case with, let's say Jimmie Crawford, Buddy Emmons or some others.

Terry Wood · Post by **Terry Wood** » 22 May 2009 5:41 am

All of the mentioned steel players in my opinion were great in their own way.

Pete Drake's playing has been criticised many times by steel formites, but he played on hundreds if not thousands of recordings. It would be interesting to see a list of all those he did play and record with or his credits on sessions.

I for one, would sure like to turn on a radio and hear those good old Country songs again. I miss all of the truly greats that includes the singing and the players. Just think of all those that are gone now. I miss them! When I was a youngster, I used to really like to listen to the Grand Ole Opry on the radio when it was full of quote "Country Stars!"

Well, I guess that I was just born in the wrong era. But several of the great steel players including Jerry Byrd, Lloyd Green, Zane Beck, Speedy West and others refer or refered to the "Golden Age of Country Music as 1950's through about early 1980's. Jerry told me in a letter once, "That songs today, just didn't have any meat in them." Stop and think about all those great songs for example that we were all listening to, that were recorded in the 60s - early 80s.

Just my thoughts, don't send me to Sibera or stone me!.

Terry Wood

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 22 May 2009 6:27 am

Do we realy know how skilled Pete was? Could we realy tell just by hearing his recording,being that he played what he was asked to play.He played for John Q.Public not for steel guitar players. I don't think he tried to show off in front of steel players. I alway enjoyed what I heard Pete play,would haved loved to hear him jam.
A few years ago Buddy was touring with the Everly Brothers and I saw them in concert. They played a popular jazz instrumental. Buddy played his part with little or no crowd reaction. When the young pianist played his part, the crowd responded with applause. That one I can't figure out--I really enjoyed Buddy's participation--maybe simple is better for John Q's ears Joe

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 22 May 2009 6:46 am

Do we really know how skilled Pete was? Could we really tell just by hearing his recording,being that he played what he was asked to play.He played for John Q.Public not for steel guitar players. I don't think he tried to show off in front of steel players.

Only my guess, but I think we all heard Pete at the top of his game. He was playing everything he knew. Technically, none of it was anything an intermediate-level steel player couldn't do, but it made his employers happy and he made a ton of money doing it. His business skills added much to his success. Just my opinions of course, but I was kicking around Nashville when Pete was "hot," and saw some of this unfolding for myself.

A few years ago Buddy was touring with the Everly Brothers and I saw them in concert. They played a popular jazz instrumental. Buddy played his part with little or no crowd reaction. When the young pianist played his part, the crowd responded with applause. That one I can't figure out--I really enjoyed Buddy's participation--maybe simple is better for John Q's ears

More than any other factor, I would say it was the audience's unfamiliarity with the instrument that contributed to this non-reaction. In general, I don't think your basic Everly Brothers fans are huge steel guitar buffs, myself being the exception.

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 23 May 2009 11:33 am

I think it's really telling that you *still* hear Pete Drake inspired parts coming from the top Nashville session players today.

I just bought a Joan Osborne CD she recorded a couple of years ago in Nashville (great record by the way). Paul Franklin's playing on 'Till I Get It Right' was a virtual tribute to Pete Drake.

Jody Sanders · Post by **Jody Sanders** » 23 May 2009 5:29 pm

As has been said many times, Pete used the KISS method in his playing. The general public could care less if you are making an A minor 7th with added 3rd,5th,9th 13th Dim., Aug. Chord. Jody.

Alan Miller · Post by **Alan Miller** » 23 May 2009 6:27 pm

Those who criticize Pete Drake maybe havn't listened to enough of his stuff, yes he had a some very recognisable licks and we all still vividly remember them in 2009, but he played much much more than that.
He probably wasn't as technical as Buddy Emmons /Curley Chalker or as fast as paul franklin but throughout the 60s 70s he played some fabulous fresh country pedal steel.

THE MAN SHOULD BE CELEBRATED, he made an immense contribution to the popularity of the instrument and probably sold more shobuds for shot&buddy than anyone else.
Lets not remember Pete Drake with the "three licks" putdown IMO its a weak criticism,he was a legendary figure, brilliant session musician, a peoples musician but maybe not a musicians musician.
Having now stepped off it, my soap box is now safely back in the cupboard

Alan Kendall · Post by **Alan Kendall** » 23 May 2009 6:47 pm

Well said Alan.

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 23 May 2009 7:07 pm

Jody Sanders wrote:As has been said many times, Pete used the KISS method in his playing. The general public could care less if you are making an A minor 7th with added 3rd,5th,9th 13th Dim., Aug. Chord. Jody.

Thats right he played for the general public,not for a bunch of steel guitar players. He was one of the best.I bet he could play all of the chords you mentioned,but where would you put them in most of the songs he was asked to record on? Just maybe thats why he backed up so many people. Joe

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 23 May 2009 10:00 pm

"I just bought a Joan Osborne CD she recorded a couple of years ago in Nashville (great record by the way). Paul Franklin's playing on 'Till I Get It Right' was a virtual tribute to Pete Drake."

I played with Joan on an E-Town radio show right after that record came out and had a blast playing his solo on that...very Pete indeed...

Steve Davis · Post by **Steve Davis** » 26 May 2009 3:24 pm

I guess a lot of people have heard the hundred dollar bill story - various versions - it's just paparazzi gossip anyway, but I do know that the great Curly Chalker album Big Hits on Big Steel has an interesting note on the back.... "Produced by Pete Drake". I think steel guitar has had an identity crisis... not so unfathomable as it has been a new evolving instrument. In the early days of pedal steel was no DaVinci or Plato to follow.. you had to invent your own technique. That's what's great about steel - Pete's talking steel guitar was a way of thumbing his nose at over complicated technique. Maybe. Now Buddy is Plato - Curly is Dickens and Pete is just Pete. lol

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 26 May 2009 3:49 pm

Steve Davis brings up an interesting point about Chalker's Big Hits On Big Steel album, which was indeed produced by Pete Drake.

In a 1967 issue of Fretts magazine, which I read voraciously, Paul Graupp (a forumite) wrote about the opinions of the pickers in Dallas at the time regarding Big Hits. It was not a well-received album here in Texas, because of its ...um... "commerciality"

. Basically, three-chord country songs, albeit done with Chalker's over-the-top C6 chordal approach. The pickers in Dallas knew that Curly could play like Oscar Peterson, so whassup with the 3-chord corn?

Probably, Pete was trying to convince the suits at Columbia that he'd bring them a country album they could sell to the hillbillies. Lloyd Green was having success at Chart Records with his instrumentals at that time.

I'd like to hear Paul's take on it now, with the perspective of 40 years. Graupp... you out there, hoss?

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 27 May 2009 4:06 pm

Paul Graupp (a forumite) wrote about the opinions of the pickers in Dallas at the time regarding Big Hits. It was not a well-received album here in Texas, because of its ...um... "commerciality"... Basically, three-chord country songs...

That sounds strange to me, but maybe I'm the only one that considers "Texas music" anything but "chordally complex". In fact, I think the reason that Chalker wasn't more popular for sessions (after the mid '60s) is that he was anything but "commercial" for the music in that period. With the waning of Hank Thompson's popularity in the late '60s, western swing and the C6th sound kinda dropped off the face of the earth...everywhere but in Texas, that is!

Anyhow, on the subject of Pete and Paul - back in the early '70s, a local singer went to Nashville to make a record. When he gave me a copy and I played it, I asked him who did the steel, and he said..."That's a young guy named Paul Franklin, he's new - a protege of Pete Drake". (This was right after Paul's work with Gallery, and he wasn't known at all in this area.)

I don't know how true the statement was, but his answer (and Paul's solo) just kinda stuck in my head.

Jack Stanton · Post by **Jack Stanton** » 27 May 2009 6:09 pm

Pete is one of my least favorite guitarists who has played some of my most favorite steel parts on record. His contribution to George Harrison's "All Things Must Pass" album remains on of the major factors that lead me to steel guitar. His playing on the cut "Behind That Locked Door" is a perfect example of giving the song exactly what's called for, nothing more or less.

By the way Jim, I believe it's your turn to buy....

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 27 May 2009 6:34 pm

Jack Stanton wrote:By the way Jim, I believe it's your turn to buy....

You got it, Jack. The very next time I see you. Let's see... when was the last time... 1985?

Bo Borland · Post by **Bo Borland** » 27 May 2009 6:45 pm

I recorded some tracks years ago for a local in the Philly area. We did about 5-6 cuts, the other side of the LP was recorded at Pete's Studio with a young Paul Franklin burning it up.
I liked Pete's tracks on Nashville Skyline

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 27 May 2009 8:05 pm

Jack Stanton wrote:Pete is one of my least favorite guitarists who has played some of my most favorite steel parts on record. His contribution to George Harrison's "All Things Must Pass" album remains on of the major factors that lead me to steel guitar. His playing on the cut "Behind That Locked Door" is a perfect example of giving the song exactly what's called for, nothing more or less.

As it happens, "All Things Must Pass" was the album I was listening to that led me to start this thread.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 27 May 2009 8:09 pm

I put "commerciality" in quotations because I don't think the Big Hits album was commercial at all. It was all Chalker doing his C6 thing, but on simple country tunes.

As an example, his version of "Together Again" from that album sounds like a Henry Mancini arrangement of the tune. One I happen to really enjoy, as a matter of fact.

No, the players in Dallas were doing much more complex stuff, jazz, standards, pop tunes, etc., often out of a Bb6 tuning. I'm referring to Julian Tharpe, Maurice Anderson, Tom Morrell, Billy Braddy, Bert Rivera, Bobby Garrett, and those guys.

What is considered "Texas Music" today is basically "Americana," an amalgam of different types of roots music and not chordally complex at all. This is not what the the swing steel players in metropolitan areas of Texas in the late 60's were playing. They were doing stuff like the Maurice Anderson box set, and the Anderson/Morrell/Jerry and Johnny Case recordings, jazz and standards.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 29 May 2009 4:46 am

I think I can settle this feeling or technique argument with two words:

Doug Jernigan