C6...Will I ever learn?

Billy Murdoch · Post by **Billy Murdoch** » 19 May 2009 2:37 am

I guess there are many of You out there who have given up on trying to learn the "back neck"
There are probably many of You who have become proficient in a short time.
My own experience has been pretty bad.I have played e9 for many years and whilst I am still learning new things I am fairly proficient on this neck.
I just cannot get it together on the back neck and wonder if I ever will.
I do'nt give up easily,I admit I now do not try to play the back neck for very long.
I have a few highly recommended courses and the like and I still cannot get the brain round it at all.
I do'nt think it is a case of "Keep at it You'll get there" I think it is more a case of "forget it and learn to play better on the front neck"
There are some great pro players who only play E9,does this tell Me that they have trouble with C6? I am not alone.
I am wondering if I should retune the back neck and forget the pedals and levers,Any suggestions?
I look forward to hearing of other players experience with this neck.
Best regards
Billy

Per Berner · Post by **Per Berner** » 19 May 2009 3:06 am

A pad is a much more comfortable armrest than a C6th neck.

Ken Metcalf · Post by **Ken Metcalf** » 19 May 2009 4:02 am

I have a Jeff Neumann coarse that starts you out doing slow blues, Learn the 1,4,5, chords with the pedal that gives you a 4 chord,(for me this is pedal 6) learn the pedal that gives you a 7th chord.(Me pedal 5) back 2 frets
Learn 2 different positions for each chord like F on the 5th fret and F on the 12th with 6th pedal.
Just like E9th its hard to remember at first which pedal changes which strings and where is the root.
Then practice this with SLOW blues to get the chord positions.
I play Universal E9th/B6th and like the fact that my chords are in the same positions as E9th ... E 5th fret with Es lowered and 12th fret 6th pedal Es lowered.
You could try tuning it to B6th instead of C6th.
The course is called Universal Course but it is all 6th and no E9th... just one fret difference.
Play that Boot Heal Drag...AHhh HAaa There goes them Boys...

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 19 May 2009 4:03 am

Billy,
I guess I have a similar problem as you concerning the C6th neck, but I'm glad I have it.
If a song asks for a more bluesy, jazzy backup I look for the right chords and join them together until they fit.
I really don't understand much about the C6th tuning, but if it sounds good, I think it's o.k.
I believe Al Perkins has a 7th tuning on his back neck. That could be an option for you, but I myself would not do it.
Joachim

Ken Metcalf · Post by **Ken Metcalf** » 19 May 2009 4:35 am

Just for the record.. all the songs on my myspace below are recorded on the E9th neck, True Tone PU, Nash 112.
Most of this was learned from Herb Steiners Swinging on E9th.
It is surprising when you lower the Es how close the 2 tunings are after transposing C6th to B6th, (referring to 9th tunings and 6th tunings) Just that pesky D string.

John Allison · Post by **John Allison** » 19 May 2009 5:19 am

I don't have a long experience with either, but this approach might give you hope:
I have a back neck with no pedals. Evenutally I'll put some basic pulls on it, but for now I play non-pedal stuff and it works great. If you're really interested in conquering the C6, maybe it's possible to just forget the pedals and changes, concentrate on the top 8 strings (I suggest a High G tuning) and play some things the old fashioned way until you're more comfortable.
You might be surprised at the scope of possibilities and it would probably go a long way toward demistifying the tuning for you.
Just my 2 cents...
Good luck.
J A

Rick Barnhart · Post by **Rick Barnhart** » 19 May 2009 6:13 am

Billy, just a suggestion but if your first string is tuned to D, try tuning it up to G, then experiment with some two string harmonies. You'll easily find some nice fat chords.

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 19 May 2009 6:56 am

Don't give up. C6 is really,really easy. All you gotta do is learn about 5 songs and you'll have a good handle on it.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 19 May 2009 7:04 am

when i got my first D10, i was at a loss on the C6 neck
Buddy's Basic C6 helped me quick
C6 is quite a fun neck Billy & not that hard
perhaps you could find & decent C6 picker in yer neck of the woods who could set you right ?
there are similitudes between both E9 & C6 tunings
when it comes to chords, i prefer the C6 over the E9

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 19 May 2009 8:51 am

When you sit down to examine the C6th neck.....

FORGET EVERYTHING YOU KNOW about the E9th neck.

Don't think of them as being related........

Give C6th a clean slate.......learn its differences and weigh them accordingly. Especially, DO NOT THINK of the string picking combinations as 'similar' to E9th. DO NOT think of working the pedals like you do the A & B pedals of E9th. It's a different kind of animal. Stop thinking of it as a bastard child of E9th or whatever.

C6th, when compared to E9th, is more like comparing a blond to a redhead. Not that much difference both cost about the same to maintain. One will make you proud for a variety of reasons and the other will do likewise. Both will give you huge amounts of pleasure as you learn better how to control them and WHATEVER you do, DO NOT COMPARE THEM!

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 19 May 2009 9:10 am

even though, i do agree w: Ray on what he's puttin' down, i beg to differ on the " do not compare " bit.
On Buddy's Basic C6, that's the first thing he explains is the similitude between the 2
that does'nt mean you should be thinkin' E9 on C6
(there's quite a few pickers out there thinkin' C6 on E9)
E9 is that modern "nashville" tuning whereas C6 is the original hawaiian, & jazz swing tuning
yep they're both specific like a blond & a redhead
sisters nevertheless

Bob Cox · Post by **Bob Cox** » 19 May 2009 11:52 am

Herby Wallace has some great learning material on c6 and it will definately get you headed in the right direction.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 19 May 2009 12:24 pm

I agree with Mr. Johnstone,C6th is NOT hard to learn,It's a lot more forgiving [if you hit a wrong string,etc] than the 9th neck,I think what scares people is they HEAR it's hard to play,IT'S NOT.Just get a basic course that shows what pedals do what,then learn something simple like [blues stay away from me,or harbor lights] take it slow it will come to you.won't take long you will be playing uptempo swing tunes. DON'T LET IT SCARE YOU. It's a lot more simple than you think. DYKBC.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 19 May 2009 12:33 pm

Get the C6 tab for San Antone Rose and head to the woodshed.
This song is representative of a ton of Western Swing music.

Bill Mayville · Post by **Bill Mayville** » 19 May 2009 1:14 pm

Michael is right!
The two necks can be seen as somewhat alike.
Buddy says that in his course.(C-6 )some things are the same.That attitude got me thinking.
G on C-6... G on E-9 7th fret.
C on C-6... C on E-9 3rd fret
At this time I only have a single neck Jackson.
I hope my memory works. Not much else does.

Before spending any money on medicine for not sleeping,I would spend a little time learning how to use 7th;s,6,s and where they are.Some of the people
I have met,have a hard time knowing where and when to use them.The sound you may be looking for,may not
be just useing the (7 chord) when it is time.You might consider going from the 5 chord,and moving to the 7th of it.That;s where you can make Your sound.

I don;t always have a helping answer.One example.
One of the prettiest sound I make on the C 6 neck.
12th fret C . On the way to a four chord I hit the C 7 (10th fret 5 pedal) first.I like the sound.
Hope this might help a little.
Bill Mayville

Archie Nicol · Post by **Archie Nicol** » 19 May 2009 1:36 pm

I have a uni' and find it easier to relate the two tunings. Don't have to worry about that pesky `D` string, Ken.

Arch.

Tracy Sheehan · Post by **Tracy Sheehan** » 19 May 2009 1:55 pm

Seems it got a little off topic,but compairng blondes to red heads,i always liked blondes no matter what color thier hair was.
For steel i always favored the C 6th.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 19 May 2009 2:30 pm

when I was at the Scotty`s back in 1994 I had a chance to spend an hour with Don E. Curtis showing me some stuff, after he ripped few hot licks on C6 I asked him "how do you do that?" and his response was "play whatever you want just finish it on the right note" ....worked pretty good for me...LOL....

Db

Ken Metcalf · Post by **Ken Metcalf** » 19 May 2009 2:43 pm

Is there a difference between Blonds and Redheads ??.. Humm
I guess if you say so

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 19 May 2009 3:24 pm

Not sure I follow this. Please explain:

Bill Mayville says:

G on C-6... G on E-9 7th fret.
C on C-6... C on E-9 3rd fret

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 19 May 2009 4:36 pm

Billy the best way to get to understand the C6th neck is to spend time on it....get Buddy's basic C6th course and really spend some time solely on that neck.... EG: if your going to have a 2 hour practice session, do the whole 2 hours on C6th!!! Don't keep going back to the E9th neck.

I went through a similar thing when I first got a D10 - you need to do the woodshedding just like you did when you first started playing E9th. Once you get more familiar with the C6th neck then things come a bit easier!

Good luck mate !

Bobby Hearn · Post by **Bobby Hearn** » 19 May 2009 6:02 pm

Not many become proficient in a short time. It takes time and practice, and afew cuss words.

Sandy Inglis · Post by **Sandy Inglis** » 19 May 2009 9:30 pm

Hi Billy
I've just got a D10 after learning the E9 for about 18 months. I held off C6 until I could devote some time to it. I now am stuck at home with my left foot in a plaster cast (after surgery). This gave me the opportunity to learn C6. As I have to keep my left foot elevated foe a few weeks,I set up my D10 with the A B C pedal rods off, and stick my foot thru it onto the D10 case. Paddy suggested I learn the 'no pedals' notes, but I got curious and am now playing the basic pedals with my right foot (be it badly) I know I'll have to re-learn the pedals later, but at least I'm making progress. As for as C6 is concerned, I also found that you have to 'switch off' E9 way of thinking and start fresh. I'm enjoying the swing /blues styles and it is all starting to make sense. All of the basic bar and pick skills were essential on C6 but it is a different 'mind-set' to E9. I can already feel a wealth of opportunity for my future playing by learning C6 as I don't just want to play 'Country', although it is necessary to go through it as a sort of 'apprenticeship'. Stick at it and good luck.
Sandy

Jerome Hawkes · Post by **Jerome Hawkes** » 20 May 2009 4:27 am

the players i've run across who could REALLY play on the C6th neck all came from a non-pedal background and also a time in the music that was much more c6th friendly. oh, and a lot of Texas / west coast players too that grew up with that sound.
so, it seems to me, some time spend, as others have said, with learning what NOT to do with all those pedals might help.

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 20 May 2009 10:02 am

Retrace the path of many C6 heroes, start simple with a lap steel tuned C6 and progress from there.

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C6...Will I ever learn?

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