diminished chord

J. Michael Robbins · Post by **J. Michael Robbins** » 9 May 2009 7:19 am

So, to find the F#dim (vii chord in the key of G) use the F Lever at the 1st, 4th, 7th, 10th, 13th, 17th, 20th & 23rd frets. Or, use the B Pedal, E Lever and 1/2 A Pedal at the open/unbarred, 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, 18th, 21st & 24th frets.

There are probably other ways to get these chords?

Stuart Legg · Post by **Stuart Legg** » 11 May 2009 4:33 pm

The pedal steel dim. chords that I write into the notation is usually a little odd to most but I’ve found it to very effective given the limitation of using just the thumb and 2 fingers to pick with, as with most players. I use different dim.chords depending on what chord I'm coming from and what chord I'm resolving into within the Key.
I usually notate a strum or arpeggio with a bar slant using strings 6, 7, 8, 9. which repeats with 4 inversions over 1 octave or dropping one note and play the chord on strings 5, 6, 9. I realize to the purest this is not a true dim. Chord. All I can say is tough sht, I like it better. Here are a couple of examples from my notes.

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 13 May 2009 9:31 am

Bent, you said "Major chords appear every 12 frets, minors likewise."

Methinks not, there are at the very least three positions in every octave (12 frets).

John McGlothlin · Post by **John McGlothlin** » 13 May 2009 11:44 am

After reading all this info about dimished chords it has made me dizzy so I need to go and get me a glass of water and sit down.

John McGlothlin · Post by **John McGlothlin** » 13 May 2009 11:45 am

I forgot...I'm already sitting down.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 13 May 2009 6:37 pm

Probably the most finacially lucrative Diminished lick is the intro theme from "The Simpsons".
It's played directly out of the Diminished "pocket".
'Basically the same notes as the Diminished transition from "In Memory Of Elizabeth Reed", but played with a totally different feel.
Cool.

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 13 May 2009 6:44 pm

Here you go...no pedals..use strings 5, 6 and 9. (A) dim. on fret 4 strings 5, 6 and 9 repeats on fret one, strings 5, 6 and 9, repeats on fret 7 strings 5, 6 and 9. On Fret 4 the notes are Eb, C and F#..on fret one, notes are C, A and Eb...on fret 7, notes are F#, Eb and A...always use strings 5, 6, and 9.

bill dearmore · Post by **bill dearmore** » 15 May 2009 10:01 pm

I think what all this means is the dim. scale is not JUST a minor third scale. I believe it's a whole tone/half tone scale. E,F#,G,A,Bb,C,C#,Eb...Try it...Bill

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 16 May 2009 9:14 am

My experience has been that the Diminished Chords and Augmented Chords are written in the published notation but are most generally substituted for by the musician.
Most commonly substitutions are For A dim substitute a D9 and for A aug substitute an Eb9.
If you’re planning to use a lot of diminished and augmented scales in your soloing, your playing will turn out to be as bad as your plan.
I know it’s good to add a little tension to your chops, but there are just way too many clams in these scales.

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 16 May 2009 9:37 am

Hey Bo, if one sticks to strings 5, 6 and 9 you can play your A dim on frets 1, 4, 7 and 10 thereby substituting your A dim with F7th, Ab7th, B7th and D7th positions. I do not follow your A aug substitution of Eb9??

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 16 May 2009 10:27 am

Brad, I just listed the best choice substitution for the Adim and the Aaug chords out of all the possibilities. The 7th and the 9th of the Eb9 chord are the 3rd and the #5 of the Aaug chord. Since the 3rd of the Eb9 is the 7th of the Aaug chord this is actually an Aaug7. I tend to think more in terms of a diminished as a 7b9 and an augmented as a 9b5.

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 16 May 2009 11:58 am

Bo, I now see it, the third of the A aug is played on fret 11, string 9, the +5 on string 7 and the 7th on string 6...stay away from string 5 because that is a Bb. the E9th is a great tuning..endless possibilities..thanks for your time.

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 20 May 2009 5:18 pm

For what it's worth a diminished chord formula is:

1-b3-b5-bb7

as opposed to a minor seven flat five, the true 7 chord of any given key:

1-b3-b5-b7

Stuart Legg · Post by **Stuart Legg** » 21 May 2009 4:53 am

Ken, you’re correct, but as you know the same notes are also found in a min6b5 and a true 7b9 chord contains all the notes of some diminished chord. The 9th chord of a different root is a good substitution for a diminished chord.
You can not take a formula for a chord in one key and apply it to the scale numbers of another key.
For instance the formula and scale numberrs are identical in the Key of A. However if you move the formula numbers over to the key of Ab the A dim would become an (Ab)7b9 because the 1 of the key of A is a b9 of the key of Ab. One man's A dim is another man's (Ab)7b9 depending what key your in.

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 21 May 2009 7:37 am

Likewise Stuart, the chord of D13b5b9 in G is also the same as Ab7#9 in the key of Ab.

At least it is on a regular guitar.

Rick Winfield · Post by **Rick Winfield** » 21 May 2009 8:46 am

was this said before /
if so pardon me, but
easiest way i know
take a dom 7 chord and raise the root 1/2 step
i.e. D7 = D F# A C
raise root> D#dim= D# F# A C now you have 4 different dim chords

basilh- i use the 3 note shortcut. Bb13= E7#9 rootless
rick

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 21 May 2009 6:55 pm

Curly Chalker never met a diminished chord he didn't like, and I tend to agree with him.

Excellent information by Dean Parks, as usual. Since he's a top studio musician in Los Angeles, y'all should be picking up what he's putting down. Take heed.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 22 May 2009 7:33 am

An interesting note to S12U players regarding playing Diminished chords...

Anywhere you are playing the E9th based F-lever Diminished (E's>F's), you can get a fuller (like 11 of 12 strings), cooler sounding inversion (to my ear, anyway), by using pedals 5+6, (tradionally know as the B6th pedals used in 6th mode with E's lowered).

In this case where you are basically playing/thinking in E9th mode for the moment, you play the pedals 5+6 Diminished WITHOUT the E's lowered.

The reason playing the B6th pedals in E9th mode without the E's lowered works is... because P6 lowers String 8 E>D, and raises string 4 E>F (same as the F-lever, pretty cool!).

So that's one more way you can play S12U as "On Big Tuning".

Here's an S12U chord progession example in the Key of C:
C - Fret 3, pedals A+B
E - Fret 3, pedal/lever A+F
F - Fret 1 open
Dim - Fret 1, F lever, OR... B6th pedals 5+6

Use the "repeats every 3 frets" thing liberally.

Parr Bryan · Post by **Parr Bryan** » 27 May 2009 10:45 am

Like Peter said, make the diminishes:
1/2 of A pedal(if one of you knees doesn't lower the 5th, 10th by 1/2. If you have this pull use it while pushing A pedal all the way down.) ADD to this the B pedal and lower your E's (knee) and you have a diminish that sounds like the one on C6 with pedal 5,6.
The F lever (raise E's 1/2) makes a diminish chord but it don't sound as melow as the aforementioned one. Have fun and learn more of these color chords like Augmenteds, 9ths, major 7ths as these add the sounds that make people say you're a good player and you don't have to learn how to speed pick (which is the lead guitars job anyway).

The Steel Guitar Forum

diminished chord

Dim with no pedals on the E9th

Subs?

A Aug 7

said before ?