Playing "IN THE BOX"

Tommy Gibbons · Posted 1 May 2009 3:00 pm

Ocassionally someone will say play in the box, stay in the box. Exactly, what are they saying and meaning? Give an example.

Thanks, Tommy
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Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

i might be wrong, but i would take it to mean
playing the 1-4-5 from the 3rd fret to the 5th or from the 8th to the 10th its a pattern many times called the "pocket"

guys if i'm wrong jump right in
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Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

Go easy on the b5 and #9. Cool

Joseph Barcus · From: Volga West Virginia

you might want to ask your self first do these people thats telling you this term ( play in the box) know what they are talking about. to me just playing your scales would be considered playing in the box, unless one was a cat then playing in the box would mean something else lol. if you are staying in the chords of the song and not playing something off the wall then I would say Im in the box man Im in the box
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Roy Thomson · From: Wolfville, Nova Scotia,Canada

Don't get fancy. Keep it simple.
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Bo Legg · Posted 2 May 2009 8:28 am

All great answers here so far.
When someone ask a Steel player to play in the box they usually mean don't play your C6 neck, just stay on the E9.
You usually only hear the term playing out of the box from Jazz musicians as in improv with chord and mode substitutions. Not playing out of the box of course would mean sticking close to the melody with your improv.
I wouldn't back off though to the point you sound anal no matter who ask.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

It means that they don't like your style.

Bill Moran · From: Virginia, USA

Stick to the melody and keep it simple. That's how I would take it ! Smile

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Ernest Cawby · From: Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

I think of playing in the box means,
As using the 3rd fret and the 5th fret, playing all the song as we use to do it, using the pedals, you can play whole songs within those 2 positions, and sound like we played years ago, you can even play whole songs on 1 fret, as in Mansion On the Hill, Jeff Newmans course Just Play the Melody, then he uses the whole guitar on the next verse. I would think this is playing in the box, Give it a KISS, Keep It simple s.

ernie

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

It means that you are going outside the boundaries of what they are comfortable with. But those boundaries are completely dependent on the context they are playing in.

Suppose, for example, that you're playing with an old-school country or blues band. If you take a burning solo with rapid bebop-influenced lines over a slow ballad or slow blues, that is definitely out of the box. Don't laugh - I've played with people who feel compelled to do this.

In a sense, I agree with b0b - but I'd just modify it to say "they don't like your style in this context." I've played with some excellent musicians who were well versed in many styles - country, blues, jazz, rock, whatever. But when playing on a gig where a certain bag was expected, we are expected to stay within that bag, to some extent. When playing in a "blowing" context, it's completely different - they may love bebop, but frown on it out of that context.

My take, anyway.

John Allison · From: Austin, Texas, USA

I say congratulations for playing well enough to find your way outside the box - so much so that some one has to nudge you back in. Winking

I'll be happy when I can find where the danged box is and which side it opens on. Laughing

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Bob Hickish · From: Port Ludlow, Washington, USA, R.I.P.

With the use of words in this modern age , everyone
that replied to Calvin's question may have a point .
If your a non-pedal player you can find most tunes
within 2 or 3 frets - I have used the term Box or pocket
for playing in that area , and like b0b has said in other
posts - there are numerous places on the neck to get
the same phrasing . using all of the possibilities for voicing
is what I have understood to be playing out side the pocket
or Box . its my opinion that Calvin is correct in his description .
I also agree with Ernest on the subject . using a PSG opens
up the bigger cords but exactly like playing non-ped in the box

Dave M
would your thought on this be more " pushing the envelope "
than playing in the Box ??? Question

Just MO
Hick

Tommy Gibbons · Posted 3 May 2009 7:35 am **The "BOX" defined???**

I really appreciate all the comments concerning the "BOX". I went to the guy and asked him "what exactly are you saying "stay in the BOX?" He measured between both hands about 6 inches...that's the "BOX".

I want to hear your comments on this...

Thanks so much!!! Tommy
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Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

There are a lot of ways to interpret this question. I gave my interpretation, which is naturally based on the kind of people I typically deal with.

I don't think most non-steel players know enough about pedal steel guitar to know much of anything technical about how it should be played. I'm pretty confident that if anybody I knew told me to "stay inside the box", they would be talking about a conceptual musical box, not a box pattern on the instrument.

But it's possible that someone else might mean to stay within a tonal range - e.g., hang low and not venture into "Hugheyland", stay high and not go down into the singer's range, or just don't jump around so much. It's a pretty ambiguous comment, even with the 6" hand description, which could be interpreted literally or as an analogy.

Just my take. I have actually had people say this to me, and they definitely meant it how I described it - I pressed them for a clear explanation. YMMV.

Joseph Barcus · From: Volga West Virginia

I would not let that person get to you to bad, tell him to sit down at your guitar and show you the box. the pockets on a 6 string and a pedal steel are as different as night and day. could be the guy is trying to make you quit.
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Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Tell me, that being in the box, is totally different from having a turn in the barrell?

Hook Moore · From: South Charleston,West Virginia

Ulf Edlund · From: Umeå, Sweden

Actally, b0b might be onto something Smile

Jeff Hyman · From: West Virginia, USA

I've not heard this term for many years. Actually, I would have agreed with Calvins reply if I hadn't read all the informative and different replies. To me, staying in the pocket means to stay with the meter... providing the rhythm section creates a pocket (whole other thread). So if Staying in the Box was different, I'd have to agree that being more melodic with the song is the answer. Like Ernest said... KISS.

Stuart Legg · Posted 3 May 2009 5:02 pm

John Allison · From: Austin, Texas, USA

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking_outside_the_box

Tommy Gibbons · Posted 4 May 2009 6:51 am **Opinions Welcome!!!**

The guy who made this statement is a talented above average musician (guitarist)...he does have a big ego and likes to say things like this in front of people trying to impress them and be-little other musicians for his own self-importance. BTW, he's not the band leader.

I've been told by other musicians...don't listen to this "jerk", your playing intimidates him! Now, I don't know about that...he's good.

I'm not quitting...I love to play. All the guys in the group have been great...exept this one!

I play hours alone in the music room with tracks. And, that works for me too!

I'd love to hear your opinions...Tommy
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John Allison · From: Austin, Texas, USA

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

The box is square.

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