A solution for those of us who double on steel and guitar?

Gerald Menke · Post by **Gerald Menke** » 1 May 2009 7:01 am

The recession has taken a bite out of my steel-only work and have been doing a bunch of doubling lately on steel and tele. I haven't tried this yet, but I wonder if anyone else has ever tried "splitting" a "stereo in" power amp (I use a VHT 2-90-2), so that one preamp (Boogie) would feed one side of the power amp (for the steel), and racking up another preamp, that would feed the other side (for the tele).

I play into a stereo THD 2X12 cabinet, so each instrument would get its own speaker, and I'd leave the Lexicon in there for verb for the steel, and just go out from my pedal board into this ancient Alembic pre for the tele.

Any of you all tried something like this? I am just getting tired of hauling two amps, and trying to stack them up on tiny NYC stages. And obviously what the NV 400 does well, is totally wrong for guitar to my ears, and vice versa, Deluxe Reverb for steel.

Look forward to hearing from my doubling brethren, thanks for reading my post.

Gerald

Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 1 May 2009 7:32 am

I`m sure that the set-up you described would work ok.
I used two pre amps a few years ago . The MB Studio Pre for guitar and lap steel and an Evans for steel. Both pres to a Rocktron effects unit with a Y-cord and to the power amp and speakers.
I now have a custom tube pre based on the Twin pre amp circuit. One channel for steel, one for guitar. The guy who built it for me made the channels different ; more headroom and a little different tone stack or steel, more like a standard Fender for guitar.
Both these setups use both channels of the power amp, of course.
With your set up you could use different tubes for guitar and steel as well as different speakers. Interesting....

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 1 May 2009 2:57 pm

Another solution might be to use a rack mount stereo power amp, like the MosValve 500, and a preamp with built in fx processor or perhaps one of the modeling units. That way, each patch will have it's own preamp, eq, fx settings and the amp remains neutral. I can't see any reason you would need two separate preamps. No need to isolate amp stereo sides per instrument either. You could use a 12 cab and a 15, F.I.

If more control is needed, a parametric eq. unit can be switched in and out when using one instrument or the other.

Works pretty good for me for switching between steel and guitar/slide/reso whatever.

It wouldn't take anymore stage space than 2 combo amps and could all be contained in a 3 or 4 sp. rack plus the speaker pair and beats the heck out of packing 2 big combo amps far as I'm concerned.

There are times when I use the NV400 along with said preamp/processor, but I'm seldom happy with the sound for all instruments.

David Nugent · Post by **David Nugent** » 1 May 2009 3:09 pm

The Walker Stereo Steel has an input in the rear for an additional preamp which runs through the existing poweramp. When I was working fairly often I used a Carvin three channel preamp in my rack for electric banjo,mandolin, and harmonica and the Walker unit for steel. Worked very well.

Tony Dingus · Post by **Tony Dingus** » 1 May 2009 5:49 pm

When I tried to play guitar along with steel I ran my steel in front of my amp, Nashville 112, and the guitar thru a preamp/fx processor into the fx loop return and used the amp's floor pedal to switch the fx loop on and off. Worked like a charm.

Tony

Ward Skinner · Post by **Ward Skinner** » 1 May 2009 9:53 pm

You guys are over my head on all the electronics. I play a steel and a tele, much more steel than tele. I use a Peavey Nashville 112, which has 2 in inputs, a high gain and low gain, My understanding is when both are used they will both be low gain, so I need turn the amp volume up a little more when using both. My steel runs through a black box to the amp, the tele goes straight in with no effects. The steel sounds great, the tele is passible...and I don't tweak settings for the different instruments. I have a Fender Deville 4X10 that the tele sounds great through, it's just too heavy and too much more to carry. For what I do, it works out well enough.

mike nolan · Post by **mike nolan** » 2 May 2009 3:36 am

That setup will work. I have done the 2 pre amp stereo power and stereo cab thing before, and it was OK. I can get away with the Deluxe Reverb for both though. What don't you like about the DR for steel? You might check out the Headstrong Lil King.... you can get them to set it up with different tubes for more power and a 15"

Tony Dingus · Post by **Tony Dingus** » 2 May 2009 5:56 am

Ward, get a eq pedal for your guitar to tweak your guitar's tone.

Tony

Eric Philippsen · Post by **Eric Philippsen** » 2 May 2009 7:34 am

I double on steel and guitar. Over the years I've gone on a lot of consolidation kicks after just plain getting tired of all the stuff I have to bring, set up and tear down. But, for myself, I've come to the conclusion that there's no holy grail amp that will cover both steel and guitar. An old Twin Reverb might be the exception but, jeez, they are boat anchors especially with JBL's.

So, I just go with two setups. I have found that as I get older I use less and less effects. Sure, I'll still use a full pedalboard for guitar, but maybe only 50% of the time now. The other times it might just be a dirtbox and a compressor.

Dennis Wallis · Post by **Dennis Wallis** » 2 May 2009 12:08 pm

I use a Peavey Rhythm Master 400. It has FOUR individual channels,each with its own eq,reverb settings,etc. It is 210W with a 1501-4 BW speaker. Works great. If you can find one. They haven't been made since the 80's. I had mine rebuilt by Peavey right after I got it and haven't had any problems with it since. They work good for most any instrument and you can run up to four thru only one amp.

Jerry Gleason · Post by **Jerry Gleason** » 2 May 2009 2:44 pm

I've always doubled on guitar and steel, and over the years, I've come up with various consolidation solutions, with varying degrees of satisfaction. My current setup is pared down to a single Nashville 112 for both. I run the steel into the Nashville's preamp, and my use my Tonic Tube preamp for guitar. The output from the Tonic goes into the 112's power amp input in back. The trick is to insert the plug into the jack half-way, just to the first "click". That way, the Nashville's preamp and the tonic are both "hot" at the same time. You just have to remember to turn down the guitar or steel's volume control when you're playing the other.

This arrangement would also work fine with a Pod, or other preamp / processor instead of the Tonic preamp. I like the Tonic preamp into the Nashville 112, because it gives me a guitar tone that resembles a Deluxe Reverb, but cleaner, louder and more ballsy. I don't need distortion or other effects other than reverb, but it would be easy to use whatever pedal you need in front of the Tonic, or in it's effects loop.

Richard Chapman · Post by **Richard Chapman** » 3 May 2009 3:27 pm

I am doing something similar with my Nashville 112. I plug my amp emulator (stereo output) into the Cd jack and the preamp and that both work without half-plugging the power amp. That way I have all the preamp, tone and reverb for the steel, and the amp emulator does the six string stuff. I can get all the grit I want for the guitar and still have a perfect steel tone. The guitar does not sound as good as one of my tube amps, but for live, it's fine and a lot less gear and more versatile. The only ones who comment are the amp snobs who want to give themselves an ego stroke.

Casey Lowmiller · Post by **Casey Lowmiller** » 3 May 2009 8:00 pm

Just get a Standel. You'll have great tone...no matter what you're playing. HaHaHa!!!

Casey

Gerald Menke · Post by **Gerald Menke** » 4 May 2009 6:05 am

Thanks very much for all the replies you guys. I need another amp like a hole in the head, so buying another Peavey or Headstrong is totally out of the question. My goal is for once in my life to be smart about spending money on gear (i.e. not spend any), just use what I have in a different configuration to solve the problem.

I will tell you those Headstrong amps are out of this world for guitar, that's for sure, might be the nicest sounding combo I've ever heard, and I've played just about every boutique amp out there.

I have used a Deluxe on gig or two, but I find I get that "steel thru a guitar amp" sound, and I just don't like that anymore. What's more, the DR just doesn't have the headroom I need for playing a push-pull with humbuckers.

I am going to try this splitting the power amp set up soon, and will let you know how it goes.

Thanks again for all the replies.

Gerald