Which new Steel has the vintage ShoBud sound?

Sonny Priddy · Post by **Sonny Priddy** » 27 Apr 2009 3:35 pm

Nothing Sounds Like A Sho-Bud But a Sho-Bud. Nothing Sounds Like A Emmons But A Emmons. My 2 cents. SONNY.

Tom Quinn · Post by **Tom Quinn** » 27 Apr 2009 4:03 pm

I am always dumbfounded by the harsh critcism of the rack and barrel system. I've had two Professionals and never had any problems with that setup.

The good part is how quickly you can change a copedant if you want to experiment. As far as the so-called "jingle," just carefully wrapping a piece of gaffer tape around the rack pairs eliminates that, and you have one very quiet guitar.

Sho-Buds definitely have an organic quality to their construction, but so do vintage D-28s -- ever see the saw marks on an old 28's Brazilian Rosewood? Early Teles are the same way, crude and wodnerful.

I don't care at all for the cookie-cutter all-pull guitars made today. If you like them, fine! :- ) I'm happy with old Buds and Emmons push-pulls. Ain't life great?! -L-

Tq

Pat Comeau · Post by **Pat Comeau** » 27 Apr 2009 5:07 pm

I think the real problem here is that some people tends to stay stuck in a certain era

and their brain are stuck on a certain sound they first heard years ago and then go on and say that vintage guitars sound better then new guitars $:\$ , in my opinion there's nothing better than progress in everything cause it gives you better comfort ease of playing, newer guitars like "Rains, Carter , Mullen, sho-pro and so on...sounds damn good in my opinion

, and i don't think that the old vintage PSG sound would fit in all of todays music, i think it's a good thing that guys like John Coop can take an old guitar and make it better than when it came out of the factory.

I'd bet that older generations in the 1920"s would probably say the same thing about their vintage instruments sounding better than those first pedal steel guitars.

Ron ! · Post by **Ron !** » 27 Apr 2009 6:18 pm

and i don't think that the old vintage PSG sound would fit in all of todays music

Then maybe you can explain to me why people buy so many sound effects, amps and stomp boxes to get close to that retro sound.
Don't you play a rebuild maverick?......
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=140239

Ain't you trying to copy that "old Vintage" PSG sound?

Ron

Tommy Shown · Post by **Tommy Shown** » 27 Apr 2009 6:35 pm

I have heard the Jackson, and to me. Its' sound is sooooo! close to the old Sho-Bud.If they were still around, I would more than likely be still playing a Bud. But many years ago I fell in love with the Emmons PP. I love that sound. I still love the old Sho-Buds too. The one thing I loved about the Sho-Bud was it was easy to work on the undercarrage. It was a lot easier to change or add pulls to the knee lever and easier to fix the knee lever if the that bracket broke off that holds the handle too. Again there's alot of pros and cons with everything. The same is true in life, with the choices we make.Opinions are like you know whats.Everbody has them.I am not trying make anyone mad or angry. If I have, then I am sorry. But this is how I feel. Sho-Bud made some instruments. So has Emmons. Those are the only two that I have ever played.
Tommy

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 28 Apr 2009 6:53 am

It is amazing to see how many folks don't realize that shot Jackson had nothing to do with the design or production of the Sho-Bud guitar after 1966. All the "Pro series" were designed and built by David Jackson of "Music City Manufacturing", David is now building the "Jackson" steel guitar. The only guitar on the market today with a new approach to building steel guitar. David was always a premier inventer, never following the pack.
I'm astounded at what some of these folks don't know about the history of this instrument. David was responsible for building over 55.000 Sho-Bud steel guitars. Shot wasn't even in the same building. I can't understand one poster here tearing down David's reputation while telling how much he idolizes Shot. The best thing Shot did was "Build David!"

Bobbe

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 28 Apr 2009 7:35 am

Tom Q states>>

I am always dumbfounded by the harsh critcism of the rack and barrel system. I've had two Professionals and never had any problems with that setup.<<

Tom, the fact is that most builders have moved away from the rack system to better systems, so you have a minority view but you have every right to have it..good Steelin

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 28 Apr 2009 8:09 am

Brad Malone wrote:the fact is that most builders have moved away from the rack system

Brad
AFAIK, no company EXCEPT Sho-Bud used the rack/barrel system, they quit making them in 1972, and they sure ain't making any nowadays.

The rack/barrel arrangement was *okay* (+/-) in operation, but there was a lot of extraneous metal and noise involved. When S~B went to the 2-hole pullers with brass swivels and the barrel behind them, a lot of excess weight and clank was removed.

I'm always grateful to know that the SGF will never run out of dead horses to beat up. It'd be awfully boring around here!

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 28 Apr 2009 8:29 am

Herb S. Writes>>I'm always grateful to know that the SGF will never run out of dead horses to beat up.<<

Herb, Stay away from those live horses, they can kick..LOL

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 28 Apr 2009 9:15 am

I'm not pretending to know a lot about these old Sho-Buds. I'm learning more every day. I just know that I like they way they sound. I think it's a plus that they're also beautiful. When I decided to return to the D10 set up, I researched a little bit to find out what I wanted in a steel. I've heard the way many newer steels sound, and they just don't please my ear. I have a Fender 2000 that has tone til the end of time, but mechanically is unrealistic and frustating. The Sho-Bud Pro seemed to be what most guys thought were the best Buds made. I just wanted to make sure the mechanical aspects were sound. That's where Mr. Coop came in to play. I think that those old Sho-Buds are wonderful, and I don't care who designed them. I think there were problems with the undercarriages, but not due to design, but maybe in production and in trying to meet demand. They cerainly seem easy enough to modify, (not for me, but for a mechanic). I think that there are more ways to skin a cat, and everybody thinks their way is the best.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 28 Apr 2009 9:18 am

Fred, nice positive post, I liked it!
Bobbe

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 28 Apr 2009 9:33 am

Though I have heard both brands, I think the only way to get a Bud sound is to play a Bud. I like my old fingertip except for the cheesy bellcranks/pullers and the antiquated knee lever assemblies. In fact in time I plan on having Coop or Ricky or James Morehouse rebuild the undercarriage only because of dependability in the tuning area. I would like to add that from what i am told that years ago quality control was not as severe as it is now. I have been told when casting endplates if the mixture was a little short, Shot was not above throwing a couple tin cans in to fill the molds. Some of the endplates and pedal bars kind of show this. Bottom line is if you want the Bud sound then buy a Bud.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 28 Apr 2009 9:34 am

Brad Malone wrote:Herb, Stay away from those live horses, they can kick..LOL

You got that right, Brad. And don't ask me how I know! OUCH!

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 28 Apr 2009 10:12 am

Craig A Davidson wrote: In fact in time I plan on having Coop or Ricky or James Morehouse rebuild the undercarriage only because of dependability in the tuning area.

You might have been refering to me Craig?

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 28 Apr 2009 11:10 am

Hey James, I guess in tornado season you could be referred to as "lesshouse".

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 28 Apr 2009 11:16 am

I'll sneek a dead fish into your packa seat for that one, Chris!!

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 28 Apr 2009 11:39 am

James yes I was referring to you. I also know a Morehouse and his name is also James and I am getting old you know $:\$
I missed you by the way in the Quad Cities.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 28 Apr 2009 11:41 am

Craig A Davidson wrote:James yes I was referring to you. I also know a Morehouse and his name is also James and I am getting old you know $:\$
I missed you by the way in the Quad Cities.

Yeah Craig, I sure missed being there. Next year, and I'll have my fingertip there, too!! That should be pretty close to "that" shobud sound, right-o??
Yee Haww!!

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 28 Apr 2009 11:55 am

"not above throwing a couple tin cans in "

Quality control issues at Shobud? No way! Here's a pic of the pedal rack from my '67 R&B S-10. That thing imbedded in it ain't aluminum. It stripped the teeth right off the file I was using to try and refurb the rack. And it left the shop lookin' like that when it was new! And that's the top side, not the bottom. So,, it always showed. When I took the endplates to the polisher he said, "Ain't nothin' I can do about all the air pit holes." Nonetheless, the guitar is a blast!

Sonny Priddy · Post by **Sonny Priddy** » 28 Apr 2009 4:38 pm

I Have A SHO+BUD LDG Like New Money can't Buy. SONNY.

Steve Spitz · Post by **Steve Spitz** » 28 Apr 2009 6:42 pm

I owned two classic buds, a pro 11 and a LDG. I dug the vintage vibe, but I ended up selling them for something with more modern mechanics, and had no regrets.

I currently have a Fulawka D 10, and I wonder if Ricky Davis, or anyone else who has owned both would like to compare the tone.

I actually prefer the Fulawka, but I didn`t own both at the same time, my ability to A/B diminishes as it was a few years between both axes.

I will say that untill I plugged my Bud into a pot pedal and a Fender tube amp or even my Webb, no magic. When I stumbled upon what should have been the obvious set up, it was sweet.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 29 Apr 2009 3:22 am

I think Fulawkas sound sweet, and are amazing guitars. But past the cosmetics, I don't see a direct connection between the Fulawka and the Sho~Bud. To me they sound a lot different, as much as I love the tone of both guitars. The Fulawka has a more pronounced mid-range, which some dial in on their Sho~buds as well, but besides that I don't see much similarity.

T. C. Furlong · Post by **T. C. Furlong** » 29 Apr 2009 3:54 am

I have had the pleasure of getting to know David Jackson over the last several years. As Bobbe points out, David is a brilliant and talented inventor. Where is the credit and gratitude for his invention of the split finger that virtually all makers use today? He has never joined the "improve on an Emmons" group of steel makers. David mentioned to me that he hasn't really ever looked closely at an Emmons. The fact that he ran a company that cranked out 55,000 pedal steel guitars is mind-boggling. If I'm not mistaken, at the peak, they built 1500 steels in one day! Sure there may have been an occasional air pocket in a casting. Who cares? I think Sho-Bud always went for sound and delivering steels to players. No two year wait for a steel in the '70's when I started. I bought a Maverick to get me started. I played a Pro II for years. If David had not had his business to the point where a music store in Chicago could order a steel and get it in right away, who knows if many of us would even be playing. To this day, David Jackson is coming up with some incredible new designs that will undoubtedly find their way into the steel guitar history books. Jackson Steel Guitars have a bell-like quality that is fantastic. They make steels that honor the Sho-Bud legacy and steels that push the envelope of innovation.

If you ever wonder about what Sho-Bud was all about, listen to the solo on Remember When.

I would remind those who are critical of a true pioneer that they were really doing it long before the art was perfected. I think we all owe David Jackson a debt of gratitude.

One man's humble opinion...

TC

Gary Sill · Post by **Gary Sill** » 29 Apr 2009 4:21 am

In Dallas, I spent several memorable conversations with this gentleman. My perception was a forward thinker and one who is thinking beyond where we are today in steel guitar. For those doubters or people who don't really know him, they should. Do yourself a favor and meet David maybe in St. Louis or the next opportunity you have. You will be blessed with hearing what a true gentleman who knows steel guitar and cares about what is produced has to say. Harry is also just as interesting to hear his perspective on what can be done with the instrument in the future.

I do not like to hear good people being torn down and spoken negatively of when without them steel guitar would not be even a fraction of what of it is today. Again you may not agree with me, but before you disagree spend 10 minutes in an discussion of steel guitar with David and Harry. Play and listen to their product of today. Look at their innovations and it should be a mind changing experience for you and one that is necessary if you truly love steel guitar history and its future. The reason, they were its history and they are forming new ways to make it better for the future. Thank you to the Jackson brothers.

Gary Sill

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 29 Apr 2009 5:01 am

Thanks T.C. I think you put things into perspective rather well.

The Steel Guitar Forum

Which new Steel has the vintage ShoBud sound?

sound

rack attack

Live horses can kick

Sho=Buds

Sounds like a Bud ? Try a Fulawka

On David Jackson