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Topic: The elusive “SOUND”! |
Jack Francis
From:
Queen Creek, Arizona, USA
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Posted 24 Apr 2009 10:32 pm |
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My thoughts on the elusive “SOUND”!
O.K. Here goes..I read peoples comments about maybe needing to change pick-ups…or a new amp, etc….and there is little doubt that…from the steel to the amp there are a lot of things that can alter the signal and make for interesting musing about how to obtain that hard to find “sound” that frustrates us
I would venture to say that we really are just fighting ourselves as we go through these exercises. Over the years I have done a lot of recording mostly on 6 string and I have used a lot of different amps….and surprise surprise..I don’t notice that much difference in these recordings and my sound.
Discussing this with my son he told me that he can notice my “Sound”, anywhere I am because I set my EQ’s on my amp to whatever I’m playing through until it feels right to me…and “WALLA”…That’s just me.
I got use to listening to say..Danny Sneed playing through his NV400…then hearing him through a Crate Power Block for an amp he sounds Mighty good on either and it’s hard for me to tell much difference….at least to these old ears.
My son told me a story about VanHalen opening for Ted Nugent many, many years ago and Ted was so blown away by Eddies sound he asked him if he could play through his rig….He said that he didn’t even change any settings but started playing and was shocked that all he sounded like was himself.
I guess it’s fun to keep up the “Quest”……but just maybe, it’s really not worth all the frustration and expense of the search. 
_________________
DESERT ROSE D-10 8/5...Joe Naylor "SteelSeat"...
Gallien-Krueger MB200 amplifier through an Alessis MicroVerb w/15'Peavey cab.
TELES & STRATS...
FENDER TWIN & SEYMOUR DUNCAN 50W tube amps...1-12" 2-12" & 4-12" cabs and a FENDER MUSTANG-3 |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 24 Apr 2009 10:49 pm
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Jack, you said it all pretty much. That's a fact. A player usually sounds like himself/herself, regardless of what it is they're playing or using.
It's something that we just can't change. Most folks don't realize that.
Well said, your son has wisdom. I get tired of listening to myself, but it's the best I can do. 
All good ones,
Don |
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Roual Ranes
From:
Atlanta, Texas, USA
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Posted 25 Apr 2009 4:53 am
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| I was picking with a group that the guitar player's sound was horrible. The amp he had wasn't much and I figured it was the amp. Well, he got a new amp and danged if he didn't dial in the same sound. OUCH!!! |
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Rich Gardner
From:
Columbus, Ohio, USA
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Posted 25 Apr 2009 7:41 am Elusive Sound
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| I don't remember who said it but, "it's not the arrow, it's the Indian." |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 25 Apr 2009 11:58 pm
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| Quote: |
| A player usually sounds like himself/herself, regardless of what it is they're playing or using. |
Stylewise, that's true - and unfortunately a lot of players mistake "style" for "sound".
Inexperienced players *will* dial in mediocre amp tones on whatever amp they are using, while better players know how to tweak amps to get the tone they are looking for.
Then there are players who have a "style" - but use many different "tones".. It's more prevalent in the 6-string word, where guitars have these bizarre gadget called "tone controls" that mysteriously disappeared from most steel guitars. I just don't see how anyone can play with out one - especially if they EVER use distortion, as you HAVE to roll off so treble to get decent distorted tones (IMO) - otherwise the tone is really tinny and harsh instead of smooth and cello-like.
| Quote: |
Over the years I have done a lot of recording mostly on 6 string and I have used a lot of different amps….and surprise surprise..I don’t notice that much difference in these recordings and my sound.
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So you find the same tone playing through a Tele with a Super Reverb, a Les Paul with a Soldano, an ES175 through a Roland Jazz Amp, a Strat through a '55 Deluxe and a Ric 360 through a Voc AC30?
Might as well tell Line 6 all their modeling equipment is useless - all the guitars and amps sound the same.
I'm being facetious, of course - NONE of those setup (and I didn't even start of effects pedals) sound remotely alike. Why do you think professional guitar players...or even skilled amateurs...own several different guitars and amps.
Tone.
If I play my Stringpull Tele with a dual-coil Fralin bridge pickup and Harmonic Design mini-Strat through my Pro Reverb and then compare it with my Trussart Steel DeVille through my Ampeg V4 I certainly sound like me because of MY style - but the tones are dramatically different. Same with bass - by '60 Danelectro through my SWR PB200 sound completely different from my '66 PBass through an SWR Baby Blue. You can still recognice my playing - but the tone changes.
Same with steel - whether my Fender 400 through a '64 Vibroverb or my GFI through a SS Standel, the tone varies a lot but it's still recognizably me playing.
I'm still trying to figure out how to put easily accessed volume and tone controls on my GFI so I can tweak the sound even MORE!
The hump people need to get over is "tone" vs "style" They are distinctly different.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Jack Francis
From:
Queen Creek, Arizona, USA
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Posted 26 Apr 2009 4:22 am
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I wasn't talking about making an attempt to try and sound as different as I can...but my playing and recording is limited to only using a Fender Strat and 2 Custom "Tele's" built for me by Mark Johnson, who makes MJ Guitars, played through a Fender Twin, a Seymour Duncan- 50W w/el84's, a Peavey ValveKing 100W head or an old 100W Marshall.
The point is, the EQ in my head seems to make me dial in similar sounds....you are correct...if I was using a Les Paul through one of these I would get a different sound....However, I once heard Mark Knopfler playing through a Les Paul and was amazed how he managed to sound like himself???
I don't suppose that you would grant me that most steel's are using either a single coil or a humbucking pick-up through a solid state amp voiced for steel...YES, using a tube amp will be sound different but you'll still voice it the way you wanna hear it....and yes..I would wanna use the same amp and steel Mooney used if I was trying to recreate his sound on a song but I would be trying also to EQ to his tone, not mine. 
(Line 6 will be glad to hear that their future is still secure.) 
Still..for me...No Chops...No Tone!  
_________________
DESERT ROSE D-10 8/5...Joe Naylor "SteelSeat"...
Gallien-Krueger MB200 amplifier through an Alessis MicroVerb w/15'Peavey cab.
TELES & STRATS...
FENDER TWIN & SEYMOUR DUNCAN 50W tube amps...1-12" 2-12" & 4-12" cabs and a FENDER MUSTANG-3 |
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Ulf Edlund
From:
Umeå, Sweden
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Posted 26 Apr 2009 5:47 am
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It does not always have to with a quest or frustration.
I am totally pleased with the sound i get, not every night but almost. I really couldn't wish for a better sound than the one i get from my Emmons plugged straight into my NV 112 or Session 500.
Still i fool around with different pickups, amps and guitars.
I do it for fun and maybe i learn something new every now and then.
I guess we're all different. I know i am
_________________
1983 Emmons D10 SKH, Carter SD10, Nashville 112, Session 500, ProfexII, Lapsteels, GT-Beard reso, guitars of all kinds...
http://www.myspace.com/ulfedlund |
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Robert Tripp
From:
Mesa, Arizona, USA
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Posted 26 Apr 2009 8:11 am
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Hmmmmmmm.......
Being primarily a Bass player, and often a guitarist, My Style has been developed over a period of years, influenced I'm sure by some of my favorites growing up. Over the years, as most of you can identify with, I've used various guitars, basses and amps, as well as effects etc.
BB King has a Sound and a Style His Style was developed by influences, his Sound was developed due to a hearing loss. He can't hear very well in the lower register, so in order to hear what he is playing, he cranks the treble up. Which has become familiar as the BB King Sound.
A quality instrument is designed to sound good in all tonal spectrums for which it is designed. Look at the old players, a steel, an amp, no effects rarely any eq. I wonder if don't ruin the tone of a great guitar by trying to find our Sound
_________________
http://www.reverbnation.com/roberttrippmusic
http://www.reverbnation.com/roberttrippgospel
I might be a beginner now, but someday I'm gonna steel the show. |
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Rick Collins
From:
Claremont , CA USA
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Posted 26 Apr 2009 8:45 am
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The steel guitar's potential to be a more "expressive" string instrument is why some players confuse style with sound __ maybe much more than players of other string instruments.
Both style and sound are quite "adjustable".
Perhaps this is also the reason steel guitarist come up with so many gimmicks to try to enhance their playing. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 26 Apr 2009 9:15 am
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| Quote: |
| I wonder if (we) don't ruin the tone of a great guitar by trying to find our Sound |
For a relative newcomer, I'd say that's a very profound observation!
Many a good screwdriver has been ruined by someone trying to make it a chisel or a pry-bar.  |
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Ulf Edlund
From:
Umeå, Sweden
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Posted 26 Apr 2009 9:41 am
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| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| I wonder if (we) don't ruin the tone of a great guitar by trying to find our Sound |
For a relative newcomer, I'd say that's a very profound observation!
Many a good screwdriver has been ruined by someone trying to make it a chisel or a pry-bar. |
I agree to that.
The funny thing is, i "found my sound" when i got tired of trying to find it. Just plugged and played and there it was.
I'm probably not the first or last to experience that.
_________________
1983 Emmons D10 SKH, Carter SD10, Nashville 112, Session 500, ProfexII, Lapsteels, GT-Beard reso, guitars of all kinds...
http://www.myspace.com/ulfedlund |
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Calvin Walley
From:
colorado city colorado, USA
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Posted 26 Apr 2009 10:18 am
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Jim
if the tone control you you are referring to that has dissappered is the old match box, it might be because many of us are using the Hilton volume pedal and it does have a tone control on the botton of it you just need a small screwdriver to adjust it
_________________
proud parent of a sailor
Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!
Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 26 Apr 2009 1:29 pm
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| No Calvin, Jim wants a tone control he can reach, and use whenever he wants. And I'm starting to agree with him. I've been thinkin' of putting tone and volume controls on the endplate of my "Blues" steel. Similar to the ones on my older Shobuds. |
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