Using the body mounted "Tone Control"

Dennis Manuel · Post by **Dennis Manuel** » 19 Apr 2009 6:34 pm

I have an Emmons guitar and an MSA and have never used the tone control on either one. In my opinion if a tone circuit is installed a bypass switch is an absolute necessity. I installed a bypass switch on the MSA and it made a very noticable improvement in the sound quality.

I also think a tone circuit could/should be an option when purchasing a new guitar. Whats your opinion?

Dennis

Jim Bob Sedgwick · Post by **Jim Bob Sedgwick** » 19 Apr 2009 7:23 pm

I agree. I use my control a lot, and move my hands around. The bypass switch is also a plus.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 19 Apr 2009 8:11 pm

OTOH, I think every guitar needs a tone and volume control on the unit itself. I'm not sure where the idea came from that steel guitars just needed one pickup and a straight out jack, but it deprives you of so much control over the sound. I love how my GFI Ultra plays but not having controls drives me bats - I use a Steeldriver which is something...but not the same as the typical volume/tone circuit. My Fenders have them and the tonal range provided by the controls and their interactivity really widens the usefulness of the instrument. I guess if you just want one tone all the time it doesn't matter - but I don't play with one sound all the time, and I'd think that any style of modern music would almost require some kind of tone control system.

As far as removing the existing tone control from the circuit, Google "drop out tone control" and you should find out how to buy a pot that has a cutout at the top of the travel (or instructions on how to mod one)...or go to one of the guitar boards like the Telecaster or Fender forums and either search or ask the question on the appropriate board - it's a common mod as an *added* tone function.

The other things to look at are the pot value and the capacitor, plus circuit changes (minor parts additions that improve tone when the volume is turned down) - but a larger value pot might be all you need, or a different (lower value) tone cap - those have an effect even when the controls are wide open. I know my MSA Classic sounded strangled and parts changes helped...some.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 19 Apr 2009 9:56 pm

For me the tone control and bypass on an Emmons guitar is a necessity. In some instances, just as an example, I want the C6 tone to be equal to the E9 on some songs and on others I require a more Chalker-type bassier tone . So I have the tone control set to "Chalker," and I can go from straight tone to bassy tone and back with the bypass switch.

In 98% of the situations I find myself in professionally I use the straight-through sound on E9, but there are those occasions when I like to darken the E9 sound as well.

A volume control is not needed that much for me since with the Emmons I'm almost always with a volume pedal, but when playing non-pedal on a Fender, the volume control is quite handy since I usually don't have a pedal when playing standup.

That's my thing... YMMV.

Just as a semi-off-topic sidebar, I've found that the "tophat" knob on the Emmons neck selector switch has always gotten in the way of my successfully performing harmonics, either palm or ring-finger, in the mid-neck area: the thing just sits too high. I've replaced all the tophat knobs on my guitars with smaller, early telecaster-type knobs and the problem goes away.

John Jeffries · Post by **John Jeffries** » 20 Apr 2009 5:08 am

I don't have a tone control, but I use Brad Sarno's "Freeloader" - a little red box which clips to the leg of my Jackson steel. It's not really a tone control, but it allows me to change the impedence load of the pick-up slightly to give a variation in the amount of "twang" or brightness (or warmth) from the pick-up without having to fool with amp settings. My old Sho-Bud amp just has Bass & Treble knobs - no Mid-Range control. The Freeloader is a subtle effect, and takes a bit of experimenting to get used to, but I find that it allows me an adequate amount of variation in sound to suit my needs, and it doesn't adversely affect the true tone of the pick-up.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 21 Apr 2009 7:58 am

Jim Sliff wrote:I think every guitar needs a tone and volume control on the unit itself. I'm not sure where the idea came from that steel guitars just needed one pickup and a straight out jack, but it deprives you of so much control over the sound.

Most all steelers have only a single tone in mind. (This is very easy to hear in their playing, as well as in their amp and guitar preferences.) The idea that they require or should play with a multitude of tones is, therefore, pretty unnecessary.

Connie Mack · Post by **Connie Mack** » 21 Apr 2009 8:23 am

i gots a vintage fender volume control. it has a tone control if you point your foot left or right. i generally have ignored all that tone business even when i was playing the emmons', as i kind of liked it wide open in the past. but now i'm starting to kick it in gear a bit on certain songs.

it's kind of nice not having to touch anything to do this.

this particular volume pedal is very clean sounding too. works out much better with the sho-bud.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 21 Apr 2009 9:12 am

My Williams has a tone control wired to the E9th neck only. I use it to balance the sound of the two necks (they have different pickups), and to boost the treble of the E9th when I need more.

I also use a Sarno Freeloader to twang/detwang the overall response.

Beyond that, I have all of the tone and volume controls I could ever need in the Pod XT which is near my right hand.

Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 22 Apr 2009 11:43 am

Detwang...

I`ll have to remember that.
"Joe , if you could just detwang a hair and I think we`re ready for take one..."
"Change your strings, you`re way too detwanged..."

Bill Moran · Post by **Bill Moran** » 22 Apr 2009 3:06 pm

My HWP has a tone control and I love it. Wish my Sho Bud had it. I use a Lexicon reverb and it can be a little harsh on the very high end. The tone control lets me smooth out the highs when needed.

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 22 Apr 2009 5:06 pm

Interesting post. Until I got into the later guitars, that the builders didnt put on anymore, I used a tone control a lot. I had it right near my little finger so I could pick and use it at the same time. I made a lot of money with that thing. Doing the Boowah's , talking thing, etc. It used to be well liked by the Patrons. I made it sound like a brass section, baking up a horn solo, for one thing, but I never overdid it. A player can get his true tone with a bypass switch if desired...al.

:)

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 22 Apr 2009 5:14 pm

My Williams has a tone control wired to the E9th neck only. I use it to balance the sound of the two necks (they have different pickups), and to boost the treble of the E9th when I need more.

I also use a Sarno Freeloader to twang/detwang the overall response.

Donny, based on b0b's comment and others...plus some of the other threads regarding "tone" - it seems to me there are far more people looking for tonal adjustment than makers may realize. the steel world certainly isn't insulated completely from other parts of the music industry, and I have talked to pretty much traditional steel players who look at things like tone/volume circuits with envy, but not quite sure what they'd do with them. Other players hook up all sorts of outboard gear - graphic EQ's, Black Boxes, Steeldrivers, amps with active electronics, etc to change the tone.

What's the difference between all those commonly-found outboard items and tone controls mounted on the guitar ( I do not mean in PRECISE function, since the on-guitar circuit does things outboard gear does not - but I mean since most players ARE adjusting some range of gadgetry to "tweak" their sound, why not go back to what worked originally)?

admin · Post by **b0b** » 22 Apr 2009 6:54 pm

Tone controls used to be standard on pedals steels, but most players either set them on max or rewired the guitars to bypass them. That's historical fact, and it's the reason why most pedal steels made today don't have a tone control.

It's not hard to add one if you need it. Most of the custom builders will add a tone control if you ask them to, like Bill Rudolph did with my Williams. But truth be told, most steel players don't like the sound of a passive low-pass filter.

I'm not saying those no market at all for it, just that it's not what the majority of steel players prefer. FWIW, I'm not getting a tone control on my next guitar (being built right now), even though I'm sure the builder would add it if I asked for one. I don't feel the need for it in my music all that much. Nobody's asking me to turn down the treble.

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 23 Apr 2009 3:14 am

I'd like to have a tone control on my guitar as I love the old Mooney sound. What I do instead, is use a Goodrich Matchbox, I can't remember the model number but it's the one with the tone control on top. I set my amp for a high treble sound with the matchbox control all the way on and then just cut it back for "normal" playing. It's not perfect but it works for me.........JH in Va.