What is this 8 string?

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 25 Feb 2009 4:15 pm

A guy just came into the shop with this guitar- and we're looking to find out more about it. It has 2 old caps on the tone control, the tuners are "delta"'s (in script), there are magnets on both ends of the pickup assembly and it has a 22 1/4" scale length(kinda). The freboard is all inlaid with MOP/abalone and it is really cool. The pickup has adjustable pole pieces as well. Name that tune! ))- Thanks for lookin'-- Jim

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Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 25 Feb 2009 4:50 pm

Another wacky 50's era Teisco, with hints of the also wild Commodore's - www.grouseguitars.com.au/sold/commodorelap.htm

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 25 Feb 2009 4:54 pm

...is that your final answer?

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 25 Feb 2009 4:57 pm

It's the one I'm sticking with, anyway...

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 25 Feb 2009 5:21 pm

It does look like a Teisco I've seen somewhere recently, especially the pickup.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 25 Feb 2009 8:43 pm

Yes, it looks like a Teisco, or some other 1950s/60s Japanese lap steel. I've never seen that particular design.

Here are some others:

Mark Durante · Post by **Mark Durante** » 26 Feb 2009 4:02 am

Teisco or Framus Maybe?

Mac McKenzie · Post by **Mac McKenzie** » 8 Mar 2009 8:59 pm

Ron, thanks for posting the picture of the Commodore and I hope you are speaking kindly when you mention " wild. " I worked for Bunny and Brad asked about these guitars on September 11th., 2005 as he had received an e-mail from someone in Australia. Now, this is something I do know about and I joined and put my two cents worth in and guess what? Those are my words that go with your picture. I wonder if it is the same guitar? Ben Tawhiti still plays his and did so at the HSGA convention some years ago when we were younger and had some sort of money. My reply to Brad's query prompted some interest. Richard Shatz posted photos of a very early model Commodore and I asked how did it compare to all the other guitars that he has had. He said he had never played it but out of curiosity he did plug it in and said it sounded just great " very fat and full with great harmonics " and said it deserves a new set of strings. Nice to know they are still around and well looked after. Thanks again Ron.

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 8 Mar 2009 9:57 pm

I'm going with TEISCO as I don't think it is a FRAMUS or a COMMADORE. When I was in NZ I heard a Commadore...it sounded quite good. While I am posting here, I must say a big Kia Ora to my good friend Mac !

Richard Shatz · Post by **Richard Shatz** » 9 Mar 2009 10:08 am

The shape of the peghead reminds me of this one.

http://www.gbase.com/files/store_images ... fxk_ss.jpg

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 10 Mar 2009 10:56 am

Mac McKenzie wrote:Ron, thanks for posting the picture of the Commodore and I hope you are speaking kindly when you mention "wild."
I worked for Bunny.

Mac, I grew up around 'wild', and it indeed is a positive.
I've heard that Bunny's creations started off fairly 'mild', but got increasingly ornate as time progressed. I've seen his final steel, and it is at least similar to the one in the link, if not even more encrusted with bling. It's been a while since I saw and archived pix of the final Commodore, and have lost them since... Always wanted one, and it's interesting to know they do indeed sound as good as they look. I kinda knew they would!
So the red one shown is near or possibly the last in production, correct?.
Please fill us in the the Bunny Milne story. He's another one that has sadly fallen thru the cracks of well known lore, and that should be rectified, at least here on the SGF, and for us self-centric

Americans.

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 11 Mar 2009 3:26 am

I can tell you what that is... COOL AS HELL, that's what!!! I think it's a Commodore.

Mac McKenzie · Post by **Mac McKenzie** » 11 Mar 2009 4:00 am

Ron Whitfield wrote:
Please fill us in on the Bunny Milne story.

Ron, Bunny was one of the nicest guys you could ever meet.I do not know how to post pictures and I was going to refer you to my earlier posting on this subject as there was a photo of one of his first guitars and you would have seen that they were as elaborate as his later models. However, I back tracked and it seems to have disappeared. Two of those models were still being played at our club last year. The guitars are still around, but the owners have passed on.
To set the scene. After the war, Hawaiian music and steel guitars were the rage and most of the guitars were home made. I got my first when I was about 16 and about three years later we got our first holiday playing job at Kawau Is. holiday resort. Bunny was a very quiet and private man and when I saw these 8 string guitars being played in the dance halls the only way I could get one was to order through one of the players. Bunny did not want to be known. Through another friend, I did get to meet Bunny just before this Xmas gig. We went up to Kawau, one of the guitarists had loaned me his amp. as mine was far too small and shock horrors - you could hardly hear the steel in the hall. Panic message to Bunny and my new guitar arrived on Boxing Day, one day before we started the gig, opened the case and there was my new black and chrome 8 stringer, plugged it in and it had about 4 times the volume of my other steel and Bunny had saved my bacon. To do that, he must have worked all Xmas Day, that was the sort of man he was. I still have that guitar, I have looked after it and it is the only guitar I have needed.

Now the story:

Commodore steel guitars were manufactured between 1945 and 1966 by Bunny Milne, trading as Milton Products and distributed NZ wide by Western Enterprises.The guitar shown, celluloid covered caste aluminium body was produced between 1956 and 1963 and was the third design change. Bunny was a sheetmetal worker by trade and used this skill to enhance his guitars. He made his own dies and did his own metal pressings, the string anchor pick up cover plate was caste by a foundry and Bunny did all his pre-plating metal polishing.

The first steel guitars were six string with our native rimu timber body, black french polish, chrome on copper fittings, vertical controls and inlaid frets. Later, anodised aluminium fretboards were used on this and subsequent models. The second model, six or eight string guitars, again rimu body, black spray polish and chrome fittings had the controls mounted horizontally and roller operated, the rollers only just protruding above the body surface. It was this model that Bill Wolfgramm used on all his recordings and radio work, using a Commodore 3 valve, 8" Rola speaker amplifier for clarity and tone. Cosmetic differences allowed the same guitar to be sold as " Royal " or " Milton " for specific shop outlets and this policy continued. The third model is the one pictured, the fourth was clear laquered mahogany, still the anodised fretboard, two pick ups with a mix of either or both and a much more sedate appearance but still with one straight side. The next model was also clear laquered mahogany but a balanced design, two pick ups with the same mix and finally a double neck with the same balanced design.

The advent of rock and roll gave Bunny the incentive to design and manufacture a solid body rhythm guitar, he took up factory space, employed staff and commenced production. Severe import restrictions made musical instruments almost a prohibited import, but it was double edged, guitar parts were also difficult. The business expanded to bass guitars, accesories and amplifiers in spite of the difficulties. There was continual improvement in body and pick up design to a semi-acoustic which was endorsed by the top players and as one put it " Boy! This thing is alive. " This instrument was Bunny's pride and joy but before he could recover his considerable outlay on heated moulds and formers, a change of government lifted all import restrictions and a flood of cheap Japanese imports killed manufacturing in New Zealand. Bunny retired, once again to a basement workshop, made a few more semis and maintained a repair service for the shops. This also allowed him to use his artistic talents and his paintings did quite well in the galleries.

Tom Pettingill · Post by **Tom Pettingill** » 11 Mar 2009 12:41 pm

That was a good read Mac, thanks for taking the time

Mac McKenzie · Post by **Mac McKenzie** » 9 Nov 2011 11:43 pm

I don't know what it is, but I do know it ain't a Commodore.

rodger_mcbride · Post by **rodger_mcbride** » 10 Nov 2011 8:40 am

Bought it in 1965 from a neighbor who won it in a poker game during the Korean War. Sure wish I had bought his son's Jazzmaster.
rodger

Chris Walke · Post by **Chris Walke** » 10 Nov 2011 1:17 pm

Jim Palenscar wrote:,

Sure looks like Batman's steel guitar to me.

Eugene Cole · Post by **Eugene Cole** » 15 Nov 2011 5:26 pm

Chris Walke wrote: Sure looks like Batman's steel guitar to me.

It is certainly not a Robin guitar...

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 15 Nov 2011 7:29 pm

I like it !!

Adam burgess · Post by **Adam burgess** » 30 Dec 2011 12:34 pm

Hi Mac, amazing to read your story of Buddy Milne, and also that you worked with him. Your description of his character would seem to tally with the quality and artistry of his workmanship, clearly the man had love in his hands! APologies for I am slightly highjacking the steel guitar forum (I neither own ,nor play!) HOwevr it is through trawling the internet and following leads for nearly 2 years trying to identify my own guitar that I've found out about Buddy, and subsequently following that lead has led me to you!
To cut a long story short I bought a guitar in april 2010 from Bungalow Bills guitar shop in Auckland, I was just nearing the end of my stay in NZ and just fell in love with it from the minute I saw it! It is a Ludwig semi hollow body, which via another source here in the UK has been attributed to Buddy. From everything i've read abot him, his workmanship, his ability with metal and pickups it all makes sense. The guitar is not only completely beautiful, but it absolutely SINGS!! In your piece you quote a guitarist who said something like.."Man this thing is alive!!" It's TRUE, such an amazing guitar. Anyhow, I've been searching for ages to nail it down, I've only heard of one other which sold on trade me earlier this year, but sadly only one small photo of the headstock.
So I've taken up your time, but I hope you will please follow this link and check out surely one of the most beautiful guitars ever made, and I 'd love to hear anything ele you may know about it or indeed other semis and guitars that Buddy made.
http://s1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/roduez/

Thanks for reading..

Adam

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 30 Dec 2011 1:54 pm

What a fun looking guitar!

Adam burgess · Post by **Adam burgess** » 31 Dec 2011 8:29 am

Hi Ron,

yeah she's a looker alright, completely unique in looks and sound quality too, but it all just makes the guitar look more beautiful, where it could so easily just be quirky! Amazing amazing instrument, lucky to have it really, and finally it seems am tracking down the source in Buddy Milne! I have messaged MAc McKenzie as I really hope it will bring a smile to his face to see one of (I think!?) Bunny Milnes amazing creations

Adam

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 31 Dec 2011 9:04 am

Adam, even with the Ludwig moniker, is this guitar completely divorced from the US drum company of the same name? There's precious little info on them or other examples that I can find. Deffinitely a rare bird, and thanx for posting!

Adam burgess · Post by **Adam burgess** » 31 Dec 2011 9:23 am

Hi Ron, as far as i'm aware it has no link to the drum co. at all. I've searched and searched to find out this guitars origins and its taken me nearly 2 years to get this far! I took it to a few knowledgable guitar people in UK who'd never heard of it. Finally, only this month was I given a lead by one guy who'd asked around in the trade and put me onto someone else who said it was made by Buddy Milne. So I then searched everything I could about Bunny/commodore etc and eventually google turned up this very thread!
Really exciting to finally have unearthed it's origins, but I'm waiting on Mac now with baited breath! Ha ha! Thanks fr your interest also, its always good to come across something new and interesting. Everyone on these forums is usually a guitar addict of some kind so I'm pleased your enjoying the pics!
Def let me know if you find out anything please...

cheers

Adam

Mac McKenzie · Post by **Mac McKenzie** » 1 Jan 2012 1:03 am

Adam, people wish me a Happy New Year but you have just given me one. Gee, I looked at your pictures and all the memories came flooding back. I have never seen or heard of a Ludwig since Bunny shut up shop, until now. Bunny wanted a guitar that was a cut above Commodore,one that would last for years and hold it's own against all others. There was a lot of design work put into it and when I look at the photos I again appreciate all that man's genius. Bigsby tremelos were far too expensive, so he designed his own and it worked. He improved his pickups continually and all his years of experience culminated with what you have. He wanted a responsive pickup and succeeded. The neck was Commodore when it came off the router, but from then on it was different. The depth was guaged at the 1st. and 12th. frets and was hand finished from there. You would be surprised the difference 1/32nd can make to the feel. He wanted a name that was intrigueing and chose Ludwig with 2 dots above the U to make it continental and avoid infringeing copyright. I hope you enjoy many years with your guitar as I have with my 8 string steel.

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