RV-3 Changing the steel's tone even while turned off?

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

I'd like to know if anyone else has had the problem of an RV-3 changing their steel's tone? "Even when turned off."

Or, is there something I'm doing wrong? I'm not just talking about a slight tone change. I'm talking about the difference between, having no treble on, to it sounding like full treble on and no base end at all.

It's probably me, since I've not used much in the way of gimmicks, inline, other than the original old Boss Tone, when playing.

I'm coming out of my steel, into the input of the RV-3, out of the A (mono) output jack (Leaving B open), and from there to the input of my volume pedal, and from the volume pedal output jack, directly into my amp..

Any help would be greatly appreciated. As it is, it's of no use to me.

I had a lead player tell me, it would change my tone and I wouldn't like it. However, I know there are folks who use them, without that taking place. I don't think Lloyd and others would use something that changed their tone, that drastically.

Opinions needed..

Thanks for any help or advice,

Don

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I tried three new RV-3's and they ALL changed the tone very slightly. A friend (Don Sulesky) tried a couple and heard the exact same thing.

I have a Boss DD-5 delay and it does not change the tone.

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

It does not change the tone exactly. It cleans the signal up when you put it in the chain. Like a match box. The treble you are noticing is a cleaner buffered signal. Just adjust your amp. You can add more mids without mudding out. Any effects pedal will do the same thing. It results in a very clear sound which I greatly prefer. I wouldn't play without my RV-3. Best reverb/delay unit I ever used.

richard burton · From: Britain

On a side note, I prefer my delay pedal to be after the volume pedal.

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

Jack thanks, for that information, on others having the same problem, that I'm experiencing. Maybe I'll have to end up trying out the DD-5 you suggested, for steel.

Keven, No! This Does, "Most Definitely" not only change the tone, but changes it, SO MUCH SO, that regardless of where I set my amp (old Fender Twin) settings, I can't regain, any desireable tone. Although, it may make for an excellent Recording Studio Session, since they (use to) like a whole lot more treble than fits my ears. Smile

So recordings would probably turn out great. But maybe not with quite this much treble. Smile

Richard, I tried it both ways. After my volume pedal, it was just about the same either way. Thanks though, because that's what I was wanting to know. How others found them to be, or not to be.

I'm starting to feel that just possibly, it's not going to be compatable for my use on steel.. It works fine on my old 68 Guild Starfire IV, and doesn't change the tone at all. And, works as it should. However, I'm not running through a Volume Pedal, while playing 6 string.

I'm wondering if it's due to the much hotter pickups on my Carter that it doesn't like XR-16's? The only thing I haven't tried, was going direct without a volume pedal inline. And even if that worked out, it wouldn't do me any good on pedal steel.

It might be interesting to know what pickup's the others had, that found them to be incompatible.

Thanks a lot for the information. At least I know there were others who experienced the same problem. Now, if there is a way around that problem, that would be ideal.

I wanted to see what it was like to add a little spice. Most all I've used is a bit of the Fender's great reverb, and, as I said previously the old Original "Sho-Bud" Boss Tone. I bought it new from Shot Jackson, years and years back. Darn, that must now be a relic like me. Only thing is, it still works. Embarassed

Thanks again,
Don

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Something's not right. I don't much care for the RV-3 but I don't hate it. The Boss buffer amp will add some highs--some might perceive it as a bit brittle--but it is not, IMO, awful. In my experience (with Carter and XR-16, among other things), it is not my favorite reverb but it is not tone destroying. And it does not require massive re-eq'ing. So there's either something wrong with your wiring (and really, you just have to thoroughly swap out your cables and verify that all is ok there) or there's something wrong with your RV. I know you've been around the block a few times so I don't want to insult you with the obvious (checking your cords) but all of us can miss the obvious.
But although I know a number of other people who don't care for the quality of the reverb, I've never heard complaints about tone problems as extreme as you describe.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Kevin, you and I agree on a lot of things but not the RV3. Not ALL stomp box units change or alter the tone. My DD5 is totally transparent and does not change or alter the tone at all. Same way with the the POD XT, it does not change the tone.

Along with the slight thinning of the tone change, I found there wasn't enough reverb control and for that reason alone it was enough to reject the RV3.

The tone "change" that the RV3 does is different from the change that a Goodrich Matchbox, for example, does.

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

Jon, I'm checking into that now. My son, brought me in one of his new heavy duty cords, and that's what I was using to try out the RV-3 on steel.

Since it is a relatively new cord, and it works great for him, I never gave it any thought. I'll let ya know what I find, after checking his cord out.

Thanks, anything is worth a shot. As I said, it works great on 6 string.

Thanks again,
Don

Joshua Grange · From: Los Angeles, California

Also I'd suggest going OUT of your volume pedal INTO the reverb, then to your amp.
While going from the steel to the reverb to the volume pedal does some interesting things, I don't believe for your setup you'd want that.

So again, Steel, to the vol pedal, vol pedal into reverb, reverb out to your amp.

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

Something is wrong. That kind of tone change is not typical using an RV-3.

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

Thanks Joshua,

I'll be sure to hook it up that way, after making sure everything else is 100% ok with the cord/s.

I'll post results of my dilemma. With a son playing hard rock, I guess anything's possible.. Smile

Don

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Also--I hope you are not trying to run it on batteries. That will be a lost cause--only a very few hours of life there. And dying batteries will degrade the signal. Reverbs and delays really need to be powered via a wallwart.
I second Joshua's post in general principle but that won't likely be the tone issue.
And sorry to say this but check and double check that you have the in & out jacks correct on your volume pedal. I've embarrassed myself by chasing my tail with tone problems only to discover that I had the steel plugged into the pedal output.

Nick Reed · From: Russellville, KY USA

I just did a sound check with my RV-3 in both the off position/then going striaght into the amp without the RV-3. I can see where it probably would, but I really couldn't tell a significant difference in the tone change from one to the other with my Guitar. However maybe my hearing isn't as good as some of you other guys. Most of the time I play with only a little bit of delay from the RV-3, and use the amp's spring reverb just barely cracked. My testing was done with my Emmons LeGrande III and my Peavey Nashville 1000.

Nick

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

I'm not familiar with the RV3, but there are any number of pedals that change the tone when the are in the circuit. One way of getting around this is to put the effects on bypass loops.

With these loop's, the effect is always turned on, but is removed from the circuit when not in use.

Bypass loops are easy to make and need no batteries or maintenance. I once wrote an article about this, including instruction on how to make them, for Scotty's old "Steel Guitar Enquirer" newsletter.

I still have the file for the article and would be happy to send it to anybody who is interested.
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Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

Jon, you may have hit the nail on the head, on the part of the cord being bad.

I hooked up my Beckman 360 and it showed an open tip to tip. Then from tip to shield, a slow build up to 18 ohms center to shield resistance, and acting exactly like a Capacitor. It would charge up and then show open. Switch the meter leads around and it would do the same then no reading, until you switched them around again. I've never before seen that in a cord.

Anyway, I cut the end of that cord off, and the cord now checks out ok. But get this one! The one end that was on that cord, still shows up as a cap would, when checking one with an ohm meter. However, there is absolutely no cap in it nor associated with it. It has to be in the insulation spacer they used to shield the center conductor, when the cord was made. The other end checks out fine.

After I solder on a new plug, I'll let you know how it goes.

On the wallwart, I'm using the recommended 9.0 volt Regulated supply, that measures precisely 9.2 VDC no load, and will handle up to 500 mA. So all is good in that department. And yes, they do definitely eat 9 volt batteries. Very Happy

Laughing about the cords possibly being switched around on the pedal. Been there and done that, setting up one night, back when I was using a Sho-Bud pedal. So don't ever be afraid of insulting me. Smile

I definitely appreciate everyone's help, and only hope that I can return the favor back sometime.

Nick, Thanks for doing that check on the tone change for me too. Would you mind if I asked what settings you're using? That's exactly what I'm after. Using just an ever so slight tad bit of delay, while still using the spring reverb from my amp.

I'll let you know how it works out after I install a new end on the cord. Hopefully, that might do it!

I know you're all probably wondering, why I don't just throw on another cord to try it. Smile

Well, I would if I could locate where my wife tucked them away, while doing me a favor and boxing up tons of my old stuff I'd told her I had no need for any longer. Very Happy

Thanks again, to everyone! I hope it turns out to be good to go.. Don

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

Mike, Sorry, I didn't respond to you. I hadn't seen your post until after I had posted.

Sounds like a good item for folks using lots of devices. This is more or less going to be on for the most part, if it works out ok. The older one gets, the more it seems we want to keep up to things that before we might have frowned on. Smile

I always felt I had a great tone, simply using a little reverb. But I'm now hearing some real sweet music coming from one's using probably mostly a very small bit of Delay, along with a little reverb, to just give it that little additional added flavor. Especially on the slower material.

However, the change in tone that it had, wouldn't have been good for anything. That I'm certain of.. If I'd have kicked that on in a club, the entire place would have emptied out in a flash. That's how drastic the change was.

I appreciate the offer, we'll see how it goes with the new end on the cord.

Thanks,
Don

David Hartley · Posted 9 Mar 2009 2:52 am **Hi Don**

I did try the RV-3 once. I much prefer my RV-2. It has no battery compartment but I always use it with Boss Power Adapter. Its ALWAYS in line after the DD-2. So steel/pedal/DD-2/RV-2 and Amp. I notice ZERO tone differences with either pedal on or off. They are a job to get hold of these days but occasionally pop up on eBay.

Regards

David Hartley

Many thanks for your help with my recent tab checking etc. It is very much appreciated Don.

Alan Kendall · From: Maury County Tennessee

Don,there was quite a bit of talk on the forum a couple of years ago about what a great little unit the RV-3 was.Apparently a favorite of Loyd Green. ( I think)
Bobbe Seymour even posted the settings that he had come up with. I wrote the settings down in case I ever came across an RV-3 which even at that time had been discontinued.
Setting #7
Mix 7.30/8.00
Feedback 11.00
Delay time 1.00

John Drury · From: Gallatin, Tn USA

I have used mine with my Carter, laps, Tele, strat, you name it. No change in tone.

I use only George L's cables that are in good condition.
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Danny Sneed · From: Morristown,Az.U.S.A.

Hi to all, I like what Kevin said. the RV-3 does give me more high's but I like that. have a great day. Danny

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

Boss pedals are "buffered bypass". In my experience they do not suck tone ( i own maybe a dozen boss pedals).

Pedals with buffered bypass are good at the end of a long chain of pedals.

Distortions , overdrives and fuzzes seem to be most affected by the differernce btween steel and guitar pickups. It shouldnt affect a reverb or delay.

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

David, no thanks ever needed on this end. It was my pleasure. Thank you my friend. And yes, that's what I have, for the DC Supply. The actual BOSS for that RV-3, keeps her from eating 9 volt batteries up. Smile

Alan, Thanks so very much for providing those settings. Yes, I too remember back when Lloyd had provided his settings. Thanks again! It's definitely appreciated.

John, thanks a whole lot for the heads up on the Carter, etc. and no change in tone. That's what I'm after if possible, as little tone change as I can get.

Danny, Thanks a whole lot for that information. It seems as though they change pitch (to some extent)on some, and not on others, from what I've been seeing here. Interesting. Danny, are you running yours before your volume pedal, or after? David is running his After, and gets no tone change.

Ben, Thanks for that information. That's good to know. Appreciated as well.

Thanks again, to everyone.

I didn't get a chance to put a new end on the cord today. I'll do that job in the morning and hope that does it! I'll post the results after.

Don

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

The ones that I tested (all three brand new and from different on-line music stores) were all hooked between my Hilton VP and my Nashville 1000 or 112.

I use George L's cables exclusively and my Franklin has Lawrence 710 pickups.

My friend, Don Sulesky, that got the same results has basically the same setup, except he has an Emmons Legrande II with Lawrence 710's and a Sho-Bud with the stock pickup.

The tone difference could have been compensated with a change in the amp's EQ but I take the stand that I shouldn't have to do that. For many this is not an issue.

Danny Sneed · From: Morristown,Az.U.S.A.

Hello Don,I run mine after the volume pedal...sometimes I go direct from the guitar to the RV-3 to the amp. I've been practicing without the volume pedal. Don't know why but it's fun. Also I hear every little mistake I make loud and clear. Nice talking at ya.
Danny

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

A big THANK YOU, to everyone. Yes! It works now on my steel!

I still have a lot to get figured out (in my head) of exactly which way sounds the best, to me. By which way, I'm meaning inserted ahead of my Volume Pedal, or After coming out of my volume pedal.

Coming out after the Vol pedal, adds more Bass response, where coming out Before it, adds more Treble response. I've got folks here telling me that each way sounds good to them, in a different way. (maybe they have bad hearing?) Embarassed

I used the settings that Alan Supplied. "Thanks Alan!"

Again, my sincere thanks to each of you. I'm now up, running and experimenting. There is now, no change in tone with it simply being in line, as there was previously. And, the controls on my amp, are back to working the way they should, with it inline.

That was indeed, a strange way for a (nearly new) high priced cord to be bad!

Note: I'm going to disect that plug, to find out how it turned into a (sort of) capacitor. "That's a new one on me!"

Thanks Danny, I enjoy listening to you play. Your Fessy sounds real nice as well.

Thanks again, to each of you, for all the help in my dilemma. Don

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