tuning pedals with stroboflip / strobo*

Lynn Kasdorf · From: Waterford Virginia, USA

I just got my stroboflip today- and I leave for my first gig with it in a couple hours!

I chose the SE9 sweetener and tuned my open strings with it.

Now- how do I tune my pedals? One thing I find kinda bad is that I can't observe how flat or sharp a note is, like I can on a normal tuner.

Does it somehow magically know the temperments for the pedal and lever changes??

I saw a post here that implied that "the pedals were programmed in" to the stroboflip. I guess this is possible, but it seems magical to me if it is true!

Strobo* users please clarify?
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"You call that thing a guitar?"

Billy Murdoch · From: Glasgow, Scotland, U.K.

Lynn,
Since You are in a hurry,
Yes,The flip is majic.The Newman settings take care of everything including levers and pedals.
The programming function is for YOU the user to enter Your own settings if You prefer.
I have always gone with the Newman pre-sets.
Best regards
Billy

Stu Schulman · From: Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)

Yep,It's magic.All built in. Winking

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John Lacey · From: Black Diamond, Alberta, Canada

I've got a Stroboflip and have enjoyed it thoroughly for the last year or so but one thing bugs me. How does it discern between an Eb 2nd. string and an Eb from the knee lever?

Michael Haselman · From: St. Paul

I don't think the preset sweetened tunings take pedals and levers into account. I believe they're just for open strings. I have a Strobostomp and programmed the pedals into one of the user presets. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't see anything in the manual about pedals and levers.
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Carl Kilmer · From: East Central, Illinois

I use a Stroboflip, and love it. There is one thing that helps on
cabinet drop on the 4th and 8th strings. When tuning your E strings,
tune them with the A and B pedals pedals both pushed down.

Try it, think you'll like it.
Carl
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aka "Lucky Kay"--Custom built Rittenberry SD10 3X5, Walker S/S, NV-112, and Hilton Pedal

Lynn Kasdorf · From: Waterford Virginia, USA

Billy- thanks for the quick replay and advice. It worked great on the gig last night. Boy, those blue lights look super cool too...

I've not seen any reference to tuning the pedals/levers in the manual. But, I can see how it could be smart enough to figure out that if it smells a C# of the right octave, then it must be the 5th string and the A pedal doing it, and it should be flat by so many cents, etc.

Of course, as was pointed out, some of this doesn't quite work out- 2 different levers making the same octave of Eb. But maybe they just fudge that. It seems to be a happy coincidence that the common pedals/levers on e9 and c6 don't produce any of the same notes as open strings. At least for the most part.

But it would be nice to know if it is actually working this way. I did try tuning my e9 A and B pedals in this way, and although it had me increase my B pedal G# raises a bit more than I had them, it does sound very nice.

I think I'll post a help question to Peterson about this, so I can get it from the horses mouth.
_________________
"You call that thing a guitar?"

Michael Haselman · From: St. Paul

Back to my point, for example, since there's no F open string, when you tune the E-F lever I believe the F will just be 440, or even tuning, which is way off what it should be. Please let me know if this is wrong, is it may well be.
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Mullen RP D10, Peavey NV112, Hilton volume. Hound Dog reso. Piles of other stuff.

Billy Murdoch · From: Glasgow, Scotland, U.K.

Lynn and Michael,
I hope I can explain this right.
If You are using the pre set tuning on the Flip the tuner will sense and register the frequancy at which the plucked string is vibrating.
You have the choice of using the referance setting at 440hertz or 442.5 hertz.
If we take the eigth string E as an example(I use the 442.5 setting)
When You pick the string and get the strobe to stop the string will then be at pitch(442.5)
If you activate the raise lever and tune the string it will be at pitch(435.5)NOT 442.5.
The fourth string is vibrating at exactly the same frequancy even though it is an octave higher so the same frequancy of 442.5 and 435.5 applies.
The tuner gives You the option of programming and saving Your own settings so if for example You wanted Your F note to be a little sharper than the Newman setting You can personalise the tuner.
http://www.jeffran.com/tuning.php
Have a look at Jeff Newmans chart.
I hope You can understand My Scottish accent Smile

Best regards
Billy.
P.S. I do'nt think it is possible to have two different settings for the same note (on the same preset)

David Doggett · Posted 20 Feb 2009 10:28 am

I don't use a Peterson, but it is my understanding that the Newman presets include the entire Newman tuning chart, which includes the standard pedals and knee levers. The meter doesn't know whether it is tuning a string, pedal or lever. If the meter hears a note near one of the ones in the Newman chart, it tunes it to what the chart says, regardless of whether it is a string, pedal or lever.

Newman's chart is sort of an average that will be close for many instruments. However, it has a certain amount of cabinet drop assumed, and your own instrument might be slightly different.

As for the F lever, I don't believe there is anything in the Newman chart set to straight up 440, except for the Es in the E=440 setting. Therefore, the F lever stop, like all the other strings and stops was chosen to get close to just intonation for the most common chord the string or stop is used for, in this case the A pedal/F lever combination.

Michael Haselman · From: St. Paul

Well, I'll be dipped. Now, I use the E=440 sweetened on my Stomp, but I just assumed it was for open strings, not pedals. I'm not home now, but I'll sure try this later. I just set up my own preset for the pedals/levers. Like I said, it didn't say anything in the manual I got with it about pedals/levers.
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Mullen RP D10, Peavey NV112, Hilton volume. Hound Dog reso. Piles of other stuff.

Brian Kurlychek · From: Maine, USA

It does everything. The only thing you need the presets for is if you want something different than the Newman presets.
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Dennis Wood · From: Savannah, TN USA

I use the flip for open strings, pedals and levers on my U12 Sierra. I notice that when i play alone some changes (pedals C, 5 & 6) are not perfectly beatless, but with a band or backing track it sounds fine. I made a sweetened tuning by tuning all strings and pedals by harmonics and measured hte offsets. My chart was really close to the factory SE9 thats included with the stroboflip, so i just use the SE9 setting.
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Michael Haselman · From: St. Paul

Since it seems like everyone on this thread except me is using the 'Flip and not the 'Stomp, like I am, I'm hoping it's the same. It is the best tuner for steel players ever made by far, no contest.
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Mullen RP D10, Peavey NV112, Hilton volume. Hound Dog reso. Piles of other stuff.

richard burton · From: Britain

'Flip'
'Stomp'
I have used a cheap and cheerful, simple little tuner for over 20 years, and never had any problems whatsoever.

Lynn Kasdorf · From: Waterford Virginia, USA

I wonder what it does when it senses an Eb? Does it assume that it is the 2nd string open (439) or 4th string flatted with a lever (440.5)?

I plan to hookup my old tuner and the stroboflip and verify that it does in fact implement the Newman chart for pedals/levers as well as for open strings. And, what it does in cases of ambiguity, as cited above.

But- assuming it does work as intelligently as possible, they are really missing an advertising opportunity for PSG players!

Yes, they do mention sweeteners for PSG, but they don't mention pedals, and they don't mention in ads or their website(that I've seen) that the Jeff Newman charts are what are used. I mean, they should say- select the SE9 or OE9 sweetener, tune your open strings, then tune your changes with your wrench. Done.

For the hugely massive market of pedal steel players out there Oh Well

they could make it clearer, and therby sell a couple dozen more than they do already...

My little old tuner works fine- it is just a hassle. I plug it into the steel, but then where do I set it? And, it has no backlight, so it is hard to see in a dark room. And because I don't want to just leave it plugged in on the ground, I have to plug it in whenever I wan to tune.

I agree, this does seem to be the best psg tuner. I really like the clip on the leg feature- I hate too much stuff on the floor- too easy to get stepped on by drunks, or band mates, or drunk band mates. It is all I can do to keep my beer from getting knocked over on stage. Gotta get a drinkholder that clips on the leg next...
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"You call that thing a guitar?"

Michael Haselman · From: St. Paul

Hey, Lynn. I have the cupholder. That's why I started playing steel, so I'd have something to clip the drink holder on. Very Happy

For me, the Strobo takes guesswork out, and it's bright so always readable, I also used the sweetened for fiddle, dobro. I Love em!!
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Mullen RP D10, Peavey NV112, Hilton volume. Hound Dog reso. Piles of other stuff.

Billy Murdoch · From: Glasgow, Scotland, U.K.

Lynn,
As I said earlier,The tuner cannot see two differen settings for the same note.If the tuner has been set for 440.5 then it will tune both the high and the low E flat to that setting.
This does contradict slightly the Jeff newman chart.

Richard,You have obviously been equipped with a good set of ears,You must agree however that reading the needle type tuner cannot be as accurate as the virtual strobe which claims an accuracy of 0.1%
I used a needle tuner for a long time and although I got close,I always had to tweak the strings a little after tuning,My ears are pretty well shot,having had a life in industry and My pitch is less than perfect so the Peterson tuner is just what I need.

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

I love my StroboFlip but it could definitely be improved!

It would be nice if it would display the actual string frequency as well as the existing compare strobe output. How much strobe movement is how many cents off??? You are left to guess.

My Flip tunes more accurately with the power supply than with batteries and even more accurately if you either pick the string gently or wait until the string level dies way down. Otherwise it tunes a bit sharp. This is mentioned in the user manual.

The tuner does not know one Eb from another. I have requested that they at least recognize different octaves as separate notes. After all it can tell you what octave note it sees, so why not have a separate memory setting for each octave of each note if desired. For example I set my upper E to F Knee lever note on string 4 differently than the lower one on string 8. Even better, let me store my whole tuning, all notes open, and all pedaled notes, in separate memory locations, accessable for quick use. I could select P1 and have the tuner use the B to C# settings for EACH B string and they could vary from the P3 setting for the same B to C# change.

The Flip tunes the pedals pretty close with the built in Newman presets but I use the following chart to handle the quirks in my guitar:

Tuning Chart

Greg

David Doggett · Posted 20 Feb 2009 1:26 pm

I'll give my portion of the stimulus plan to anyone who can hear 0.1% accuracy (without timing beats with a stop watch), or anyone who can consistently tune to that accuracy with their tuning keys. Most players are doing good to hear and crank the tuning key to within 2 cents (0.5 Hz) of their target. And most listeners are satisfied with anything within 4 cents (1 Hz) of the target.

The Newman chart is a couple or more cents off from perfect Just Intonation (JI) in many places, yet many people say it is fine, and better than what they were getting before they tried it. When you add to that the differences in cabinet drop between the guitar Newman used and anybody else's, you can see that many players do not discriminate within an order of magnitude (10 fold) of what the Peterson strobe is capable of. And then there are those who use, and sometimes claim to prefer, straight up Equal Temper on everything, which is as much as 16 cents (4 Hz) out of tune with JI. People should experiment with meters and their ears to find what works for them practically, both alone and with a group. But obsessing over differences less than a couple of cents would seem to be a waste of time (IMHO). Rolling Eyes

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

Regardless of how good your ear is, it may be too noisy to tune up or others in the band may not have such a good ear for tuning. Using a single tuner gets the whole band close.

One reason the extreme accuracy of the tuner is important is that it allows you to center your tuning. Assuming your guitar will drift over the course of an hour due to temperature and a hundred other influences, it's better to start with your strings tuned dead on, then after a bit of drift over time, they will be closer to being in tune than if they were initially tuned a few cents off.

In a live playing situation, tuning is a lot less critical than in a recording session. If one player is two cents off in one direction, and another is two cents off in the other direction, it just won't sound very good.

In my experience, the tuner yields great results and makes the whole playing experience more enjoyable. Most of of don't play with a band full of people with great ears for tuning. And some people just don't realize how bad an out of tune guitar can sound. Using a tuner gets everyone close in a hurry even in a noisy environment and regardless of how accurate their ear is or how good their tuning skills are.

Greg

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