That Mod Wow

Eddie D.Bollinger · Post by **Eddie D.Bollinger** » 31 Jan 2009 11:53 am

Well Chris.
I am not a "lowsy" player
But I am not all that good either. I sought the improvement because I like the kind of tone that causes you to notice
A difference in the music. As for my taste in guitars, I like to think that I can hear
Potential in a horn. Sometimes
Your horn needs an adjustment
To get all possible potential
Out of it. That's where Tommy
Comes in.

Johnny Thomasson · Post by **Johnny Thomasson** » 31 Jan 2009 12:13 pm

Brad Malone wrote:Here's the way I see the Mod conundrum. I know nothing about this Mod and I am not showing any disrespect but I have to ask a few questions.

Brad, like you, I don't know any specifics regarding Tommy's mod either. Nor have I ever met Tommy, but having read his posts on the forum, he seems like a true gentleman. I don't intend any disrespect to anyone either, but I'd like to offer a different perspective to put this in some sort of context. Having been a violin maker and repairman since 1977, I can say with pretty high confidence that IMO, there is substantial merit to the claims Tommy makes about his mod. After a few decades of tinkering, I can do pretty much the same thing with any fiddle. I don't call it a mod, but Tommy is free to call his work anything he wants. No two fiddles are identical, and the tweaks required to bring out it's best tone and response are different on every single one. And like Tommy, I won't tell what I do for the exact same reason that Tommy won't.

I can't answer all your questions, but will respond to them from my perspective having worked on fiddles for many years.

1. Are any of the top recording steelers using this Mod? 2. Are any of the top Pro's (Names that we all know) recommending that this mod is a great enhancement in their tone?

Obviously I don't know the answer to that. But I'd be really surprised if there weren't any.

Which Brand names need this enhancement?

Personally, I think the term enhancement is a much better term than mod, but that's just my opinion. Because that's exactly what it is... an enhancement. There are many different brands of psgs being made today that are outstanding instruments. Not having Tommy's mod certainly doesn't make them "junk". However, anything can be improved upon. Anything.

If all brands need this enhancement, why is it not done at the factory? Why are builders selling Steels that cost $5000 and more and not getting this necessary MOD?

That one's pretty easy to answer. They don't know how. If they did, they would.

Are unmodded Steels allowed in the recording studio?

Another easy answer. Obviously they are. As I said above, there are many fine steels being made today (as in the past as well), and NOT having Tommy's mod doesn't make them junk. I don't recall ever having read Tommy posting that any steel without his mod is junk, or substandard in any way... only that it could be improved to some degree with his mod. And based on my own experience, his claim seems entirely credible.

Why are people spending $4000 to $5000 for a Steel that has to be modded...should not that Mod be done at the factory before shipping?

They don't have to be modded. I don't recall reading a post where Tommy has said this, either. Four to five large, even less, will get you an excellent steel. But I'll say again, anything can be improved upon. And I'll say this also, based on my own experience... the degree of improvement will vary based on the individual instrument. Some fiddles I can make a huge improvement on; others only slightly. On a very few the difference was almost negligible, but I never had one come through my shop that didn't leave playing better than when it came in.

Sorry for the questions

All were completely legitimate questions. My guitar doesn't have Tommy's mod. If $ were no object I'd do it in a heartbeat, but by the time I paid shipping 2 ways and for the mod itself, I'm afraid I might have more in the guitar than I could get out of it. Not to mention being without a steel for X weeks/months. Just a practical matter. But if my circumstances changed, I'd seriously consider doing it. I really like my '72 Pro~II, but I can see room for improvement. If I knew how to do it myself, I'd get 'er done.

but last I heard we still live in the USA.

Absolutely correct. And that's what makes this country great! It's entirely your choice whether go with Tommy's mod, or not.

I hope you and everyone else take this in the spirit it's intended. I don't have a dog in the hunt here, but as I stated before, I wanted to throw in another perspective.

Best Regards,

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 31 Jan 2009 12:58 pm

Having been a violin maker and repairman since 1977, I can say with pretty high confidence that IMO, there is substantial merit to the claims Tommy makes about his mod. After a few decades of tinkering, I can do pretty much the same thing with any fiddle. I don't call it a mod, but Tommy is free to call his work anything he wants. No two fiddles are identical, and the tweaks required to bring out it's best tone and response are different on every single one. And like Tommy, I won't tell what I do for the exact same reason that Tommy won't. <<

Hey Johnny, thanks for your reply and you are kind of making my point. Being a Violin maker and repairman, I'm sure you would make all your adjustments and enhancements to the violin before you shipped it off to the customer...the customer would not have to take your violin to another person to get it to play and sound good because you have already got it to play the best it could before shipping...that's called Quality Control..there should be a couple of days that the builders spends playing and tweaking the instrument before shipping. I understand that Bruce at Zum does this and that is why you never hear anything bad about the Zums, at least I never did. Again, thanks for you input.

Lem Smith · Post by **Lem Smith** » 31 Jan 2009 1:01 pm

Eddie Bollinger is far from being a lousy player. In fact, he is quite good and the last time I heard him, which was at the Fulton show last April, his tone was second to none.

Chris, the answer to your facetious question about whether being a good player has anything to do with needing the mod, is of course it has nothing to do with it. I used those particular examples where one could hear a steel that wasn't in need of any improvements in tone.

I think Mr. Thomasson's post sums it up quite well. I've heard more than one high dollar famous brand acoustic guitar that didn't really sound all that hot when first purchased, but after someone who really knew what they were doing, got through touching it up, the difference was remarkable. As Mr. Thomasson mentioned, it's something that by no means affects only pedal steel guitars.

Manufacturers make improvements in their products regularly. Obviously even they must at times see where they can improve on things, or else why change?

Johnny Thomasson · Post by **Johnny Thomasson** » 31 Jan 2009 2:42 pm

Hey Brad,

Yes, every instrument I ever made was fully "tweaked" to the best of my ability (at that point in time) before it left my shop. But my fiddles make up only about 0.0000000000001% of those in the world. I've done considerably more repair and restoration than building over the years. I'm sure many makers have their own bag of tricks and "secrets", but the vast majority just do what they've been taught in assembly line fashion. Some of the things I do are "proprietary" things I learned during my apprenticeship, but others (and the most significant IMO), are things I stumbled on to over the course of many years. Some are so basic, they're amusing... stuff that someone who'd never seen a fiddle could do if I told them how.

I've never told anyone about what I do. If every maker knew about these things, they'd be doing it too, unless they were crazy. And, it's entirely possible that others have made the same discoveries I did and are doing it, but I think that's highly unlikely. I can tell you that there's NO WAY you can take a fiddle I've worked on apart and tell what I did to it. It's been tried... by people with considerable resources at their disposal.

But I'll also say this. If someone brought a 1716 Stradivari in my shop that was set up in perfect playing condition, I sure wouldn't yank the top off and plow in. I seriously doubt I could improve upon something like that, and the same goes for any number of really fine instruments that are out there today, so I wouldn't try. But that's not to say that no one could improve upon them. But I don't have that kind of clientele', so that's never happened to me.

I hear what you're saying, and agree. If a maker is charging the really big bucks for their steels, they should, 1) have a really primo design to start with, and, 2) wring their instruments out thoroughly before delivery as you said. Otherwise they should charge considerably less for their steels. Your point about ZumSteels is well taken; I've never heard of anyone getting a "lemon" Zum either. There's no "magic" to any of this... it's mostly science with a little art thrown in. And, a generous helping of mojo, as well...

Lem - Mr. Thomasson is my daddy... I'm Johnny.

Thank you for your kind words.

This has been an interesting thread for me. Thanks to all who contributed.

Best Regards.

***Edited for typos and clarification***

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 31 Jan 2009 6:34 pm

lem...consider that someone plays so well you can't imagine a steel sounding any better...it doesn't need a mod...until i play it and it sounds like crap, then it needs a mod. (unless i learn to play as well as the first player)but none the less, a secret 'can't explain it' mod, unlike any other snowflake, like magic, but it's not magic..it's mojo...it really works, but you've got to admit it's a curious concept and process, whatever it is.

Lem Smith · Post by **Lem Smith** » 1 Feb 2009 12:00 am

That's not it, Chris. What I'm talking about is a steel that doesn't sound as good as it should, regardless of who is playing it. For example, regarding the Emmons that I previously mentioned, Buddy E. himself could not have got decent sustain out of it, because it just wasn't there to get out before Tommy did whatever it is that he does.

When I made reference to those players in my earlier post, I was talking about various recordings they did on guitars that didn't need anything, not really about their abilities.

If I'm not mistaken, Buddy has said before that not all push-pull Emmons were equal when it came to their tone. So obviously something could be done to one to make it sound better than another, be it a mod, adjustment, screw torque, etc...

Nice to meet you Johnny T.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 1 Feb 2009 5:43 am

My point is that after paying $4000 to $5000 for a Steel "DUDS" should be returned to the factory just like you are allowed to return lemon cars..you should not have to spend another $1000 to get a $4000 steel working the way is should have worked in the first place. We should demand that the builders test and play the guitars for a day or two and go over their product with a fine tooth comb (Quality Control) before shipping a DUD to some poor customer.

Builders can't afford to sit around playing every guitar they build for a couple of days, unless they're building very few. I don't believe manufacturers are building "duds". Now, some guitars may have a different tone, or slightly more or less sustain, but that doesn't necessarily make them a "dud". Sometimes it's due to the wood in a guitar. Wood is terribly inconsistent - fancy wood doesn't always sound good, and plain wood doesn't always sound bad. Builders have built guitars that they thought would sound fantastic, only to have them sound quite ordinary...or worse. Sometimes, it's the owners of steels, who start twisting and tightening screws, and that might affect the tone in a negative manner. It stands to reason that some guitars might see a significant improvement with some extended "tweaking", and that others might see little or no improvement. A pedal guitar is, after all, a mechanical system, and if some leave the factory not quite right, then odds are that others probably leave the factory pretty near perfect.

When someone like Buddy, Herby, Tommy, Sonny, or Paul endorses this procedure, that will give it solid credibility. If someone like Ed Packard, who's a whiz at substantiating things scientifically, would do measurements on a new guitar before and after the mod, that could also lend it an air of credibility. Until then, however, all the vagueness and secrecy around this procedure can do nothing but generate more questions...and doubt.

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 1 Feb 2009 7:27 am

When someone like Buddy, Herby, Tommy, Sonny, or Paul endorses this procedure, that will give it solid credibility. If someone like Ed Packard, who's a whiz at substantiating things scientifically, would do measurements on a new guitar before and after the mod, that could also lend it an air of credibility. Until then, however, all the vagueness and secrecy around this procedure can do nothing but generate more questions...and doubt<<

Hey Donny, You said it better than I could. Someone we all know and respect should step forward and endorse the procedure so all doubt is removed. Right now we have a couple of (not so well known) guys from Alabama and Miss. raving about it...doubt still lingers.

I think builders of $4000 instruments should have time to get the instrument tweaked before shipping...most builders build less than 50 Steels a year, the way I understand.

J PARKER · Post by **J PARKER** » 1 Feb 2009 8:42 am

I can personally say that the mods work if not i wouldnt of had 6 guitars improved on the sound difference that it made. Played a show yesterday and it was obvious the max tone sound was just better in my opinion. Cleaner with overall sound quality. Jim

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 1 Feb 2009 9:27 am

now this brings up an interesting question. have any top builders...say zum, franklin, mullen etc. ever finished the tedious and loving work of creating at the time and expense necessary a beautiful new top dollar steel to find it just didn't sound good enough to sell? or do they just sell it anyway?

Jack Harper · Post by **Jack Harper** » 1 Feb 2009 10:16 am

o.k., somebody's gotta let the cat out of the bag.
quality control was established on the day that god created man. that day he made no junk.
then one day man needed to be tweaked, and so evolved
the heart by-pass procedure as we know it today.
when you have this procedure you are still the same guy, only you've been enhanced , so that you reach maximum achievements on the stage of this great life.
you could do without it and save some bux and be real careful with yourself and very few would notice a difference in you.
but are you greatly satisfied with your decision?
if you are that's o.k., it's your decision!
it might not be for everybody. and that's o.k. too.
what tommy does, he goes to the heart of the matter.
max-tone....what a great logo! that sez' it all..
country jack...........

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 1 Feb 2009 10:22 am

Hey Chris, In a recent post Reece said that back in the 70's or 80's MSA was building and shipping 11 steels a day. Most present builders do not have that volume. With Steels costing in the $4000 area I think there should be some time spent playing and tweaking the product before shipping..even if it added $200 to the final cost, getting it right the first time beats "REWORK". HASTE MAKES WASTE...do it right the first time and your customer will Love you.

Lem Smith · Post by **Lem Smith** » 1 Feb 2009 10:58 am

Right now we have a couple of (not so well known) guys from Alabama and Miss. raving about it...doubt still lingers.

Yeah, funny isn't it that it's the ones who have actually heard in person the difference in the sound of the guitars before and after Tommy's work was performed, that are the ones saying positive things about it.

While we may indeed be a bunch of not so well knowns, I can assure you that guys like Billy Carr, Dale Stacy, Eddie Bollinger and Jim Parker know if a steel guitar sounds good or not, as all of them are excellent musicians.

Johnny Thomasson · Post by **Johnny Thomasson** » 1 Feb 2009 11:20 am

Let me ask the inverse of the question that was asked earlier: do we know of anyone who had Tommy's mod done, and said "gee, that didn't help my guitar at all... total waste of money."?

I'm just trying to be objective here. I don't read every post on the forum, but every post I have read by anyone having first hand experience with Tommy's mod was highly positive. It's more than possible I missed one or more though.

Anyone that had Tommy's mod done and didn't like it, please raise your hand. A lot of people are understandably curious about it, and would like to have some objective feedback on this mod. I know I read user reviews before buying a product or service.

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 1 Feb 2009 5:15 pm

So far this thread has had about 64 replies and testimonials from 6 guys from Miss, 1 guy from Ala and 1 guy from Texas. Mr. Tommy Young is from Ala and has made about 13 replies, Mr J Parker from Miss with about 10 replies. I hope we can have some other states reply...its a shame that only Miss. is getting most of the benefit from this great Mod. Surely more than 8 people have had this mod done on their Steels...please post and let us know what you think.

Dennis Wireman · Post by **Dennis Wireman** » 1 Feb 2009 5:59 pm

You want another reply from another state. here is one from Indiana. I have an emmons legrande Tommy did the Max tone on. I can not belieave the tone of it. It will keep going just about to the pickup if you want to go that far. It is well worth the money Tommy charges believe me. If you get a chance to hear or play one. you will be convince for sure. Plus tommy is a stand up guy and I do not blame him for giving out his max tone mod secrets, for all his hard work and time invested in learning it.

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 1 Feb 2009 7:32 pm

Thanks Dennis, I hope that all the people that have had this mod reply..I believe you are #9.

Eddie D.Bollinger · Post by **Eddie D.Bollinger** » 2 Feb 2009 8:20 pm

Remember Brad, however little known we are, the numbers are still noteworthy, to me. There are probably less than 50 steelers in MS and AL combined.
5 out of 50 in two states.(That I know of) I don't think it is necessary for Tommy to apologize for his abilities on this forum because he won't post his specs and procedures. He posts his phone number, call him and approach it professionally, instead of casting doubt and implying sarcasm. Ideas of improvement have to start somewhere. Tommy doesn't cull any brandand wouldn't cull any player looking for help. It doesn't sound like you need Tommy and Max-Tone. If that's the case, congratulations on great tone and I hope you never break a third.

Eddie

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 3 Feb 2009 9:51 am

Hey Eddie, I'm glad you like your Mod...So far we have 6 guys from MS, 1 guy from ALA, 1 guy from Texas and 1 guy from Indiana who have given a positive testimonial about this mod. I hope others will respond to this thread and give their opinions about the Mod....I'm sure more than 9 guys have had this Mod done to their Steel...remember, I'm just asking questions and gathering information.

Randy Gilliam · Post by **Randy Gilliam** » 3 Feb 2009 10:08 am

I Have Had 3 Of The Same Brand I Traded For To Resale 2 Had No Mod and 1 Had The Mod And It Sustained Way Better Than The Other 2. I Wont read all The Experts Negative Opinions Because,They Have Not Tryed It I Have and It Works, If Buddy ,Paul ,Or Tommy Told You You Will Sound Better On The Train tracks You would Do it. I Dont Know If After The Train Wreck Or Before? :whoa:Randy Gilliam Number 10 .

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 3 Feb 2009 11:38 am

:whoa:Randy Gilliam Number 10 .<<

Randy, You were already counted and you are Number 3...you are, so far, the Lone Texan.....I got to go catch a train and stop it before it ruins my set-up.

Johnny Thomasson · Post by **Johnny Thomasson** » 3 Feb 2009 4:47 pm

I don't have Tommy's mod, but believe it works, and would have him do it if I wasn't broke. Shouldn't I count as at least a half?

Brad Malone · Post by **Brad Malone** » 3 Feb 2009 4:57 pm

Shouldn't I count as at least a half?<<

Sorry Johnny, No half counts here, you have to be modded before you can be counted. Maybe you can apply for a Government bailout...might work....LOL

Randy Gilliam · Post by **Randy Gilliam** » 3 Feb 2009 9:11 pm

Sorry Brad I Never Was Good at Math Number 3 Is Ok, Seriously The Guitar I Had and Played Sustained Past The 12TH Frett Better Than any Guitar I Have Played, I Have Bought and Sold almost Every Brand ,So I Have Tryed a Lot. I Dont Even No Tommy Just His Mod. Randy Gilliam

The Steel Guitar Forum

That Mod Wow

Re: Mod or not

mod before shipping

Re: DUDS are not allowed.

solid credibility

Mods

dr tommy young, cardiolo-p.h.d. of p.s.g.

sell it anyway?

Testimonials

Tommy Mod

Indiana replies

Mod Job

The Mod Works Number 10

Lone Star State

Hey, what about me???

Modded before counted

The Mod