Volume Pedal Primer

Jim Thrall · Post by **Jim Thrall** » 15 Dec 2008 7:31 am

HELP! I've been out of the loop most of my adult life...so please allow me some "catch up time". I haven't played lapsteel since my teens and now I'm well into my retirement years. I am pulling out an old 50's Gibson Century 10 string and could use help purchasing a volume pedal. I believe at one time I owned a Bigsby Pedal that was always breaking down and needing new pots....Is there a wah wah or other new volume pedal that is not mechanical? What is a wah wah anyway????????
Jim Thrall

John Bresler · Post by **John Bresler** » 15 Dec 2008 7:51 am

Jim:

Check out Keith Hilton volume pedals. He's a forum member and I have only read great things about the pedal and his customer support.

www.hiltonelectronics.net

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 15 Dec 2008 9:10 am

Jim,
Where in NY are you ? You could maybe meet up with some players sort your questions out. I'm in Brooklyn and you are welcome to drop by. There are steel players scattered all over the state.

Jim Thrall · Post by **Jim Thrall** » 15 Dec 2008 11:08 am

Bob,
Thanks for asking. I'm in central NY, Syracuse...a bit of a haul from your region, but would appreciate help getting in touch with locals. I recently met with a country/blue grass group meeting weekly looking for a steel player.
JimT

Lynn Oliver · Post by **Lynn Oliver** » 15 Dec 2008 12:22 pm

Are you sure that you need a volume pedal with a lap steel?

Rich Hlaves · Post by **Rich Hlaves** » 15 Dec 2008 4:33 pm

Jim,

I'll second what John says about the Hilton pedal. I just got one to use with my lap about a month ago and it's the best. No pot to fail of get "dirty" It uses infrared technology to process the signal. Sounds wonderfull as the pots capacitance is not working against you. I bought mine from Fred Justice, a forum member and saved a couple of bucks.

It is a bit pricey but but worth it.

Lynn,

Maybe I'm doing somthing wrong but volume swells sound good to me with a lap. It lets me eliminate the sound of the pick attack when I want ala PSG. I can get nice chordal fade ins and the like. For bluesy stuff I set it and forget it. I'm fairly new to this, only a couple of years, seems to work for me.

Best,

Rich

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 17 Dec 2008 7:33 am

Jim Thrall wrote:Bob,
Thanks for asking. I'm in central NY, Syracuse...a bit of a haul from your region, but would appreciate help getting in touch with locals. I recently met with a country/blue grass group meeting weekly looking for a steel player.
JimT

.....

Jim.. we are not that far apart... maybe an hour or so... I am always around, and would be happy to talk anytime you'd like.... bob

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 17 Dec 2008 7:38 am

btw, although the Hilton is a great pedal, a clean used Ernie Ball will cost you 1/6 the price, and will last forever... A lot of guys will say,
"pot pedals are no good" because you can't get good pots anymore, but that is NOT 100% correct... You can't get good 500 K pots... Ernie Ball uses a 250 K Japanese made pot and they are superior, and last years and years with no problems... PM me, and we can discuss it... bob

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 17 Dec 2008 8:23 am

I would like to correct Bob Carlucci. Please forgive me Bob, but I think you have some figures wrong. The cost of a new standard Hilton pedal is $269.00. 1/6th of that amount is $44.83. Bob, since you seem to know so much about pedals, please let me and everyone else know where they can buy a new Earnie Ball pedal for $44.83? There is one other important thing to consider BESIDES price alone. The other thing to consider is sound quality. Sound quality is why the majority of the major music shows and famous players have chosen sound quality over price. These major music shows and famous players have not purchased the Hilton pedal because it is the lowest priced thing out there. They have not purchased the Hilton pedal because I happen to be a nice guy who stands behind his product. You can walk into most music stores and pick up an Ernie Ball pedal today. I am always behind building orders, and that is one reason I am not out there doing sales pitches. I strongly suspect the Earnie Ball pedals are made in China. I can assure you the Hilton pedal is made in Ozark, Missouri by a mixed blood native American Cherokee Indian. Don't get me wrong, I will agree that the Ernie Ball pedal is a great choice, if price is the ONLY consideration. Don't crawfish out of this one Bob--where can you buy a new Earnie Ball Pedal for $44.83--please tell us?

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 17 Dec 2008 8:53 am

I checked on the cost of an Ernie Ball pedal at the local music store. The price was $149.00. 6 times that figure is $894.00. Back hear in the Ozark Mountains we call a person who gets simple math mixed up as a WINDY person. By the way Bob, I don't have a clue as to your motives, but I forgive you. Also hope to call you a friend.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 17 Dec 2008 9:13 am

Bob, since you see to know so much about pedals, please let me and everyone else know where they can buy a new Earnie Ball pedal for $44.83?

Why buy a new Ernie Ball pedal with the front-mount jacks? If you happen to like the Ernie Ball pedal - to me, a better choice is to buy a used one with the side-mount jacks, as opposed to the front-mount jacks on the new ones. I sometimes see them cheaply in various places, including this forum - in the $40-50 range. For example, look at ebay with the search key ernie ball volume pedal and you'll see a bunch of them of various types and prices. There are lots of these pedals out there. I've used them on guitar for years, and I don't think Bob is lying.

I checked on the cost of an Ernie Ball pedal at the local music store. The price was $149.00. 6 times that figure is $894.00. Back hear in the Ozark Mountains we call a person who gets simple math mixed up as a WINDY person.

The MAP on a new EB Jr is around $85, and the full-size around $120, and I think it's possible to do better if you know where to look. But I think the older pedals are better, hands down.

Back to the topic - as far as tone goes, that's a matter of personal preference. Some players prefer active, which tends to remove the slight treble cut as the pedal is backed off - that's great and I would not remotely question that choice. Hilton pedals are indeed very high-quality and if you look at forum threads, you'll see that he stands behind these like a rock. I think it would be a very good idea to try one of these.

So far, I still like a passive 500K for pedal steel, and 250K for guitar or lap steel just fine - and I don't think I'm alone on this. For me, the critical variable is pickup impedance - 500K for high impedance like the typical heavily-wound PSG pickup, and 250K for the more typically less-wound guitar or lap steel pickup. There is a slight tonal change across the throw of the pedal, more like a guitar's volume pot being turned down. I happen to like that if it's not severe. One thing for sure - steel guitar players of the 30's-60's used pot pedals or nothing, and they seemed to manage just fine.

The pot replacement issue can be annoying, but I agree with Bob that there are some decent choices still. I have heard some of the 500K Dunlop pots Tom Bradshaw is selling, and that will be my choice when I need them next. Similarly, I don't think there's any problem finding decent 250K pots for old EBs - I think the ones EB sells as replacements are still fine - haven't tried one lately, but did replace one a few years ago.

Those are my personal preferences and opinions. YMMV, but I think the only way to know your actual mileage would be to try several approaches out yourself as you get the chance. In the meanwhile, a cheap used EB pedal would basically get the job done cheaply and would make a reasonable cheap backup pedal.

John Bresler · Post by **John Bresler** » 17 Dec 2008 10:29 am

Jim:

Check out the for sale section here on the forum. There's a couple of good pedals for sale by Bobby Boggs and they have pictures for your viewing pleasure.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 17 Dec 2008 10:33 am

The Goodrich L-10K is an active pedal, has side jacks, and sells for under $225.

A lot of players seem to not know how to use, maintain, or repair a standard pot pedal. Those players are probably far better off with a Hilton or Goodrich powered pedal.

Richard Aumiller · Post by **Richard Aumiller** » 17 Dec 2008 11:48 am

Jim you might also want to check out the Fender Volume/ Tone Pedal. You may find it similar to your old Bigsby Pedal. I have one and its not all that bad.. not up to the quality of the old Bigsby I once had, but a good value for the price.

Dick

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 17 Dec 2008 12:04 pm

Some guys who started using a Hilton pedal claim it improved their love life. Bill Myrick, of Pea Ridge, Arkansas is one who claims this.

Bill Myrick says a Hilton pedal will draw 10 times as many good looking women as a old pot pedal.

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 17 Dec 2008 12:15 pm

I had an Ernie Ball volume pedal for about 5 hours. I tried it with both my steel and my Tele.

1] Rice B-Bender Tele w/ Bad Cat Cub II amp
2] Emmons D-10 through a Sarno BB into a N-400

Compared to a Hilton VP, the it sucked the sparkle right out of both set-ups. The Ernie Ball went back to the store the next day.

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 17 Dec 2008 1:27 pm

Why pay $40.00 for a used pot pedal,I see brand new ones in the Musician's Friend catalog for $24.00. Who cares about hinge point, height, where the cords enter and exit,sound quality, or being able to talk personally with the manufacturer if you have a problem. Heck, all that matters is that low $24.00 price.

I've been to 36 International Steel Guitar Conventions, and no telling how many regional steel shows for 30 plus years, and never ever seen a single steel player on any show using a Ernie Ball pedal.

Lynn Oliver · Post by **Lynn Oliver** » 17 Dec 2008 1:52 pm

Rich Hlaves wrote:Maybe I'm doing something wrong but volume swells sound good to me with a lap. It lets me eliminate the sound of the pick attack when I want ala PSG. I can get nice chordal fade ins and the like. For bluesy stuff I set it and forget it.

I certainly wouldn't say you are doing anything wrong. There's a school of thought that it's better to learn without a volume pedal, so I thought I'd mention it to see if you had considered the possibility.

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 18 Dec 2008 10:08 am

I use a Hilton 85% of the time. I love it and love the way Keith stands behind it. I am not one to buy and sell stuff when the mood strikes me like some on here. When I get a piece of gear I have to make use of it. The Hilton is the way to go. As for the other 15%, there are times when getting that power supply to an outlet is a futile move, for instance going to a jam and just playing for an hour or so. I then take my Sho-Bud pedal and live with it. Maybe in the future Keith will make one with a battery back-up in it.(hint hint)

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 18 Dec 2008 4:13 pm

Hey Keith... take a pill or something.. You are getting worked up over nothing... Before you get nasty, kindly re read my reply,.. I mentioned a USED EB pedal... USED as in NOT new... I see them $ 40-50 regularly.. And yes the MIJ pots they use are superior quality and last many years... The units are bullet proof and are a great choice for people on a budget. Please do not make assumptions on my ability to know whats good and whas not as far as gear goes.. I know very well whats good and whats not... I made NO negative comments about your products.. They are excellent. You need to realize that this is a players forum not a manufacturers forum, and there ARE good pedals made besides yous.... bob

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 18 Dec 2008 4:20 pm

http://cgi.ebay.com/Ernie-Ball-Jr-Volum ... dZViewItem

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 19 Dec 2008 12:07 am

sorry. double post...

Steve Feldman · Post by **Steve Feldman** » 19 Dec 2008 5:54 am

Keith Hilton wrote:Some guys who started using a Hilton pedal claim it improved their love life.....

If that's true, then you're not charging enough.

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 19 Dec 2008 6:11 am

Sorry Bob, I thought you were talking NEW Ernie Ball pedals. Probably a good idea for me to pop a Zoloft pill and mellow out. Steve, maybe I need to look more into claims the Hilton Pedals draw women. If I find out that is true, no telling how much I could charge for one.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 24 Dec 2008 8:49 pm

Keith you know what I have to say, don't you?

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