Formica covered steels look cheap and ugly

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 15 Dec 2008 8:11 pm

Charles Dempsey wrote:
Mike Perlowin wrote:
Rick Schmidt wrote:Why?
Because.
Because why?

Because I said so.

Mike Cass · Post by **Mike Cass** » 16 Dec 2008 6:22 am

Richard Burton,
you said that you didnt mean to insult anyone's wife, cat etc, or whatever it was...but your comments were a bit ummmmm, aggressive, and I would think, somewhat insulting to the fellow who came up with the idea to finish steels in mica in the first place...."an aesthetic crime" was it?..more like the industry standard,.. imho.
Why dont you just toss out that "plumbers repair kit" you've reduced your p/p guitar to and get something else? You're giving Emmons guitars a bad name. There, I said it. So sue me, Eleanor.

and I love the boomerangs, but Id have grey ones on top of black mica

In short; if you're worried about the color/finish of your guitar you're paying attention to the wrong thing, and the guitar is still playing you. Concentrate on the practice/playing and if/when you achieve the place musically where your own playing triggers your endorphins you wont care how your axe looks, and suddenly it'll be the best thing going.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 16 Dec 2008 7:42 am

It's a whole lot easier to just glue Formica onto an instrument than French Polish it. I look at Formica as being a short cut.

Tamara James · Post by **Tamara James** » 16 Dec 2008 7:46 am

Cartwright Thompson wrote:This is a classic example of a "Steel Forum Incendiary Post". It's kind of amusing how easy it is to get people all hot and bothered. Nice job Richard!

Am I to understand that this thread is nothing more than a person stating an unpopular opinion for the purpose of creating a highly-heated debate? That would be just mean in my humble opinion. There is enough crap in the couldrin, stop stirring it just to smell up the place. ewwwwwwww!

Mike Cass · Post by **Mike Cass** » 16 Dec 2008 8:44 am

Tam,
that "pot stirring" is also known as "a desperate cry for attention"....and thats why those that play, play, and those that stir, stir

Stick with the established players for advice and help.

John Fabian · Post by **John Fabian** » 16 Dec 2008 8:58 am

I am not aware of any psg builder who French Polishing to finish their steels. They do stain and spray various lacquers and urethanes.

Mike Cass · Post by **Mike Cass** » 16 Dec 2008 9:11 am

John Fabian. ....exactly

personally though, from a production standpoint would you rather mica or lacquer, figuring in stocking costs, time, mess, etc.?
just curious, thanks!

Larry Scott · Post by **Larry Scott** » 16 Dec 2008 10:10 am

I love your geetar

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 16 Dec 2008 11:10 am

Richard's post is all about personal preference of appearance - nothing more. He wasn't comparing tone with mica against wood. Mica doesn't ring his bell, but others love it.

Isn't the forum sometimes about healthy debate? Why does it have to degenerate into very personal attacks when one person doesn't agree with the view of another?

At least this post has generated a lot of interest and points of view through being slightly controversial, which is more than the majority do.

Stu Schulman · Post by **Stu Schulman** » 16 Dec 2008 11:10 am

Mike Cass wrote:Tam,
that "pot stirring" is also known as "a desperate cry for attention"....and that's why those that play, play, and those that stir, stir
Stick with the established players for advice and help.

How can you not love a guy like Mike Cass?
My deal is...and I don't even know why I'm responding to Burton's whatever it is?I've got an amazing D-10 lacquer D.R.guitar that I don't want to bring into certain venues,she's just too gorgeous,I also have a S-10 D.R. made out of "Die Board"covered in Mica,sounds great and it's pretty much bullet proof.A good portion of my gigs are flying being that you can only drive so far up here.I wanted a guitar that is at the 50LBS.limit so I can either put it in the overheads or check it at no extra cost.I play music for a living,Don't really know what Richard Burton does,nor do I care.In my other life I was an artist,cartooning,Designing shirts,sculpture,airbrushing etc.I have a vivid imagination and like bright flashy things.I love David Wright's Harley themed MSA which got my brain thinking?Hmmm.I approached Chuck Back about building me the boomerang guitar and he did,and it's wonderful.The guitar is MAPLE covered in Mica.Thanks Larry.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 16 Dec 2008 11:34 am

As is frequently the case, Mike Cass hits the 10-ring dead center, then splits the original arrow with his next shot.

To quote Buddy Emmons, "... besides, it's beautiful."

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 16 Dec 2008 11:51 am

I am at a loss for words because of the way this topic has degenerated into unwarranted personal attacks on me, and I'm especially disapointed with Herb Steiners comments.

Herb is one of the elite players on this forum, in the upper echelon of members, and usually conducts his posts in a professional manner, so I am surprised at his abberation

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 16 Dec 2008 12:00 pm

Which is the more beautiful? I love the classic looks of both of them. Lest we forget, one man played a very major part in the initial design of each make. A bit like Leo Fender, his product design has been imitated by many but never surpassed.

John Fabian · Post by **John Fabian** » 16 Dec 2008 12:13 pm

Mike,

Laminate coverings are typically better for higher volume, quicker delivery, and less damage prone.

However, If I had the UV cured process using the material Bill Rudolph does, I'd make "lacquer". This equipment is expensive and present volume does not justify the outlay. Bill told me he bought the equipment for another job he does and then started to use it for steels. The cure time is 1 -2 hrs. for the polyester urethane he is using.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 16 Dec 2008 12:27 pm

You know, When they say "There's no accounting for taste," it's usually meant as an insult, but the truth is there really is no accounting for it. People's likes and dislikes come from the heart. Some people prefer Chinese food, and some like Italian. That's just the way it is. (My problem, as my waistline shows, is that I like it all, and way too much, but that's not really relevant to this discussion.)

We all have accept that others do not always share our subjective tastes. Things like the choice of mica vs lacquer, or what color do you like, or what knee to you put your E-Eb change on are simply not worth getting upset over.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 16 Dec 2008 12:28 pm

Mike Cass wrote:...your comments were a bit ummmmm, aggressive, and I would think, somewhat insulting to the fellow who came up with the idea to finish steels in mica in the first place...."an aesthetic crime" was it?..more like the industry standard,.. imho.

In short; if you're worried about the color/finish of your guitar you're paying attention to the wrong thing, and the guitar is still playing you. Concentrate on the practice/playing and if/when you achieve the place musically where your own playing triggers your endorphins you wont care how your axe looks, and suddenly it'll be the best thing going.

Richard
I'm truly sorry you feel that my post was somehow an aberration, but I respectfully have to agree with Mike on his two statements quoted above. This is based on my 40 years of playing steel guitar professionally, and collecting/trading musical instruments of various types for about 48 years.

I own both mica and lacquer finished guitars. I enjoy both. My avatar shows me playing a lacquer guitar onstage, which I do occasionally, though I most often play a mica guitar. The reason I play either/both is playability and sound, not how they look.

Frankly speaking, I wonder about posts that state an opinion, which by nature seeks a reply that could be a disagreement as opinionated as the original. What is the purpose? What did you think would be the outcome? To make owners of mica guitars, of which you surely know there are many here, feel better or to feel worse? To tell Buddy Emmons et al. that their taste, ideas, designs are repugnant to you and therefore they should change?

Posts such as yours on this topic can be described as "flame bait," stirring a pot when no stirring is necessary or will accomplish anything positively. The question, if there even IS one, is moot; mica guitars will continue to be built, as will lacquer guitars. Discussion of the topic will change nothing in the real world.

You set up a "zero-sum game" with your wording, in which one party has to lose for the other to win. If you'd said "I really love the look of lacquered wood finishes," no one would disagree with you and no one's choice of guitar would be challenged. But you did throw a gauntlet down, and now you dislike some of the responses.

Perhaps I should have said "Richard, I disagree" and left it at that. Better I should have just followed my gut instinct and stayed away from a topic I consider a relatively harmless waste of bandwidth. But regardless, I certainly meant you no personal insult or attack, and I didn't mention you by name at all, did I?

And I do thank you for your compliments to me, sincerely.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 16 Dec 2008 12:49 pm

Herb,
Apologies for mis-interpreting your original post.

I thought you were refering to Mike Cass's second post about the pot stirring, cry for attention, those that can play, etc

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 16 Dec 2008 12:58 pm

Richard - some friendly advice. Get b0b to lock this one up. It's run its course and you run the risk of even more adverse comments. You have made your point.

Jussi Huhtakangas · Post by **Jussi Huhtakangas** » 16 Dec 2008 1:29 pm

John Fabian wrote:I am not aware of any psg builder who French Polishing to finish their steels. They do stain and spray various lacquers and urethanes.

French polishing and spraying ure... whatever on guitars, sounds pretty, eerh, "gaga" and "fruity"

This is a weird topic!!

John Drury · Post by **John Drury** » 16 Dec 2008 4:21 pm

"Formica covered steels look cheap and ugly"

You talkin to me?

Are you talkin to me?

Hey! Are you talkin to me? LMAO!

Damn, kids! Get a grip!

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 16 Dec 2008 4:29 pm

I am at a loss for words because of the way this topic has degenerated into unwarranted personal attacks on me, and I'm especially disapointed with Herb Steiners comments.

There have been some personal attacks, but not from Herb Steiner or Mike Cass. I fundamentally agree with them. For me, this comes down to what I care about most - what the guitar looks like versus how it plays and sounds and especially - how do I play and sound on it.

The other point is this - if anybody here wants to dish out blunt criticism at any level, they had better be able to take it. Brutally honest criticism invites response in kind, IMHO.

No matter how intellectual we want to make this kind of stuff, we're talking about music and not something entirely dispassionately logical. IMHO, music (and arts in general) strongly appeals to the emotions. Add to that the fact that there are many people here who have invested a large chunk of their lives in playing, making, or working on steel guitars, and have a helluvalot invested in the steel guitar, and in their steel guitars in particular. When you offer the gratuitous opinion that something they love dearly looks "cheap and ugly" or "looks absolutely hideous!!", I find it very hard to understand how you wouldn't realize a-priori that some would be insulted. It's very different to say "I prefer lacquer" or "I don't like mica" vs saying something is "cheap and ugly" or "hideous". If you want dispassionate responses, I think you should consider toning down your own language. Suit yourself, but one invites the other, IMHO again.

French polish? Why? Aren't these contraptions hard enough to maintain as it is? I've torn apart two D-10's in the last couple of months, and I thank God there was no lacquer finish have to contend with, much less french polish. They are - you guessed it - black mica and gorgeous. IMHO. BTW - I love a nice lacquer finish Sho Bud as much as anybody, I think.

Of course, these are also simply my opinions.

Nick Reed · Post by **Nick Reed** » 16 Dec 2008 4:41 pm

Like Herb, I have both and like them all. But my very favorite Steel is the one on the back left. . .my black '66 D-10 bolt-on (thank you Mike Cass) and hey it's mica!

Don Brown, Sr. · Post by **Don Brown, Sr.** » 16 Dec 2008 6:19 pm

Folks, I didn't take anything at all out of what Richard said, as anything pertaining to anything other than his personal feelings.

And! That's after having just gotten a Mica "Carter" D-10, that I feel is ONE of the BEST sustaining and playing guitars there is on the market. Notice I emphasized, the "ONE of the BEST" So no fights break out over my saying it. I'm absolutely loving both the tone, quality of the instrument, as well as the effortless playing. Tone to the Bone, as how I'd describe it. Definitely.

Other's opinions will definitely vary, and that's ok too. Mine were not so good, until I had spent a little time, getting things adjusted up to the way I liked them being. And for what it's worth, I didn't buy it off of Carter. So it wasn't that it had come from the factory that way. "I don't want any misunderstandings about that." But, the ease of working on them, changing them around etc., is a delight. And sweet, sweet, sweet right on up and off of the 26th fret marker until there's no room to pick, and dead on the money, as the sustain, simply doesn't leave in the high registry, at all.

PS: Oh! Did I say: It's also Black Mica..

And, with all of that, I didn't take one word as being offensive. I got a laugh out of it by saying, what I did in my reply back to Richard.

I love my Lacquered G.E.S., But I certainly do love my new 2005 Carter also, mica and all.

Glen Derksen · Post by **Glen Derksen** » 16 Dec 2008 6:56 pm

[/img]DON'T GO INSULTIN' MY STEEL GUITAR, VARMINT, OR I'LL BLAST YA!!!!

Tom Quinn · Post by **Tom Quinn** » 16 Dec 2008 7:06 pm

Sometimes things ae so cool, you have to be hip to realize what you're dealing with. Like formica. You don't get it Rich, no problemo. I don't get fox hunting, a national mania in Merry Olde..

Viva le difference or some such something...

The Steel Guitar Forum

Formica covered steels look cheap and ugly

too much crap in the couldrin

Hey Stu