Formica covered steels look cheap and ugly

[Jonathan Shacklock]

Richard Burton is British boys.

Tom, since you obviously have an obsession with British boys, and something or other about tearing Boy George a new kazoo, I thought it might amuse you to know the true origins of your surname:

http://wiki.name.com/en/Quinn



Why is it not OK to express opinions about the aesthetics of steel guitars on this forum, but perfectly fine to steer the topic in an openly xeno/homophobic direction? Aren't we allowed to like both "Rocka & Roll" AND "Bubbles and squeak?"

Richard needs no defending. His is a valid topic and hardly a controversial opinion.

FWIW I happen to like rosewood mica with white trim. Anything with flames on however, you can keep.

[James Morehead]

I hate the look of steels clad in formica, it's just an easy short-cut for manufacturers.

Let's get back to more laquer finishes.

Seems simple enough. I'm in!!

I do see quite a few laquers coming to the steel shows. I personally enjoy the beauty of wood grained guitars. But what it all boils down to, if the guitar does not sound good and play well, it does not matter what finish is on it. Give a monkey a hairdo, and you still have a monkey.

[James Morehead]

I enjoy Richard's posts. I enjoy my fellow steelers from across the big Pond. I enjoy the angle of humor.
But then, I'm from Oklahoma and know everything anyways.

[Dick Wood]

While I prefer wood,I've owned numerous wood and mica guitars and they've all been very great guitars.

To each his own.

[Donny Hinson]

Take two pieces of tonewood no matter the species. Tap on them and listen for the tonal properties that all luthiers listen for when building and instrument...Now finish one with a thin coat of a sprayed on finish and the then smear the other with adhesive and then press on a plastic covering. Now tap on them again and you will hear a difference in the sound.

Bill, with all due respect - that may be true for straight guitars, but I doubt it's true for pedal steels. By the time you bolt on aprons, endplates, a changer, a keyhead, necks, and 10 lbs. of rods, brackets, levers, and then hang a bunch of pedals on the front, there really isn't much tone or resonance left in the body of a modern pedal steel. I seriously doubt most players can even tell by the sound whether or not a steel's got plastic glued on, or it has finely finished beautiful wood.

I think looks and durability are the key issues when considering alternative finishes, and ( also with all due respect), I believe pedal steel makers are closer to cabinet makers than they are to luthiers.

[Mike Perlowin]

Now, I do think that carbon fiber guitars... are something I will never own.

Don't knock them till you try one. You might be pleasantly surprised.

[Bill Duve]

All kidding aside
I retired from half a lifetime working for large cabinet and woodworking mills, Except that it is much easier to find a piece of wood to cover with mica I dont think theres a bit of labor saving in either wood or mica if the mill happens to have the right equipment...I only wish now I had built one while I was still working but then I didnt know how either.,
I know from exprerience that plywood steels stink.
When I started playing I didnt know how to set up this Vegas 400, Richard Burton posted a picture for me to follow, I still have that picture and use it to this day..

[Malcolm McMaster]

Mr Quinn, it strikes me that when it comes to saying something cruel or unkind you seem to be somewhat of an expert, so perhaps you should take your own advice and not say anything.As to the origins of "American Music" I think you will find a great deal of it came from Europe, Scotland, Ireland etc etc.and there are many fantastic steel players world wide that can stand shoulder to shoulder with their brother players in America.Intolerance is a terrible thing.I may not agree with what Richard said but I defend his right to say it.

[Bill Hatcher]

Bill, with all due respect - that may be true for straight guitars, but I doubt it's true for pedal steels. By the time you bolt on aprons, endplates, a changer, a keyhead, necks, and 10 lbs. of rods, brackets, levers, and then hang a bunch of pedals on the front, there really isn't much tone or resonance left in the body of a modern pedal steel. I seriously doubt most players can even tell by the sound whether or not a steel's got plastic glued on, or it has finely finished beautiful wood.

I think looks and durability are the key issues when considering alternative finishes, and ( also with all due respect), I believe pedal steel makers are closer to cabinet makers than they are to luthiers.

It is true for wood, no matter what you make out of it.

As long as the guitar is made of wood, then there will be a factor involved in changing the sound of it and resonance of it by encasing it with plastic no matter what you bolt to it or hang off it.

Have you ever played a steel with no body?? I have played the skeleton steel that Jim Flynn makes. There is no wood in the structure around the neck, only aluminum. The guitar sounds TOTALLY different than a wood body instrument.

I can guarantee you that the wood body and the variations of body composites make a HUGE difference in the sound of the steel.

Having said that, one of the better steels I owned in regards to good tone and great sustain was an old BMI. The body was made of some kind of pressboard and mica covered EVERY surface of the instrument! Go figure?

Again I am not debating the intricate difference between the plastic covered and the all wooden guitar, I am only highlighting the fact that the acceptance of the plastic covered instrument is in spite of the sound and the appearance differences.

[Mike Perlowin]

I know from experience that plywood steels stink.

If you're talking about a home made steel made out of the stuff you buy at the hardware store, you're probably right. But many fine steels are made out of dieboard.

I believe GFI makes all their instruments out of it.

It should also be noted that the late Joe Pass played a Gibson ES-175, which has a laminated body rather than solid wood, and today Jim Hall also plays a laminated guitar.

[Billy Murdoch]

Tom Quinn,
The written word can be difficult for a reader to interpret and understand the context in which it was written.I very often add a smiley to My post in order that it be read with a "smile"
You have shown that there is nothing to smile about in Your derisive remarks about the U.K.
The joke,however is on You,Sir by Your ignorance of the origins of modern music and trying to be smart.
I am happy to say I do not consider You to be representive of the many American Ladies and Gentlemen it has been My pleasure to have encountered in My travels.
Best regards
Billy

[Bill Duve]

Acknowleged Mike P..
Im refering to Starter, Semi-Classic type plywood guitars, or production guitars...
A laminated piece of wood is another kettle of fish if made with a steel in mind, I wouldnt think of using a single piece of wood for a steel, It would be ripped straightened and then glued back up and run thru a thickness sander to make it appear as one piece, I would do that even if I were going to cover it with mica..........Black

[Stu Schulman]

Richard,Being that you hate my guitar,The Cheap&Ugly thing,You've inspired me to give her a name,Keeping with the Cheap&Ugly theme...Thanx,Stu

[Tommy Shown]

I happen to own a 1984 Emmons push pull with a mica finish on it. At first Ithought i would never own one in mica. Because the first steel I had was a Sho-Bud Pro III, I hate to say it but when I heard the sound of that Emmons in the mica finish, I was totally blown away by the sound. But it is a personal preference. What I might like ,you might not. Is America a great country or what?
Now days One does not have the choice of mica or wood laquer finishes, a person (providing they have the funds) can order an Msa with a carbon fiber cabinet.
It just comes down to what the person wants.
Tommy shown

[richard burton]

I'm somewhat confused by the direction that this thread has taken.

All I have done is stated my preference for the aesthetics of laquer finished steels, and my dislike of the appearance of mica covered steels.

I don't remember insulting anyones wife, car, house, or indeed anyone at all.

And the xenophobic/homophobic posts are surely misplaced in a steel guitar discussion??

[Stu Schulman]

"I don't remember insulting anyones wife, car, house, or indeed anyone at all."Lets see ,someone posts a pic of the guitar that Chuck Back busted his ass building for me and you say "I Rest My Case" You've insulted me,My guitar,and the guy who built it!

[Marc Jenkins]

Let's see... Richard starts a thread saying he doesn't like mica steels. Then some people post pictures of their mica guitars, and get bent out of shape when Richard says he doesn't like them. Seriously! If you didn't see that coming, I don't know what to say.

[Damir Besic]

Now, I do think that carbon fiber guitars... are something I will never own.

Don't knock them till you try one. You might be pleasantly surprised.

I`m not trying to knock anything, I`ve heard great players playing Millenium and they sounded great.It is just a matter of my personal preference,I like wood.After all, I have never heard anything that sounded better than the guitars I have now (at least to me) wich just happened to also look beautiful (at least to me) ....

Db

[Mike Perlowin]

Damir, I guess I'm still thinking of the nonsense that went on when Bobbe started his own forum, and somebody posting under the pseudonym "Ben Dover" went on a crusade to trash the millennium.

To tell the truth, I think I prefer the sound of my maple guitar, but as I live on an incline and have to climb 15 stairs to get from my house to the street, the light weight of the Milly makes it my guitar of choice for taking places. The others are currently housed in the basement/studio where I use them to record.

I started another thread in which I posted a link to an MP3 of a song in which I alternated between the maple/lacquer guitar and the dieboard/mica one, so you can hear the difference between them.

[Damir Besic]

LOL, yeah, I remember Ben Dover and converstaions we had overthere on that forum. I talked to Maurice about Millenium when they first got out and the price was just way out of my reach but than again, so were JCH. I was lucky enough to purchased 2 Promats while I could because as the situation is right now I can`t afford to buy a set of new strings.The key is to play whatever makes YOU happy.

Db

[J D Sauser]

I am not a big fan of mica... not just because of the "kitchen cabinet" looks.
But I've had two mica guitars and one in especial I liked quite a bit.

I think that the issue with the looks of mica are 2:
For one, yes, depending on the color, it can have a "kitchen cabinet" look and well, today, it's only cheap kitchen cabinets which are mica covered.

The other issue is aging. Mica, if it does not get loose, ages extremely well, compared to lacquer but, I think it's the aluminum, which dulls over the years, which then take the shine away from the instrument, leaving it looking just like an old boxy piece of hardware.
Look at all the splendid pictures of refurbished old Emmons mica guitars... and then look at some you see here and there on stage, and you will see, the main difference is the polished aluminum.

Yes, aluminum dulls on lacquer guitars too, but somehow it goes along with the lacquer aging. Also the mostly rounded edges on "woodies" may help along a bit.

... J-D.

[Chris LeDrew]

I have a nice lacquer Sho~Bud Professional for home, and a nice mica Mullen RP for live work. I think both have their own thing going aesthetically. As far as sound goes, it's hard to say. I've played both mica and lacquer guitars that sounded amazing, and I've played mica and lacquer guitars that sounded like crap. One Pro 1 that I briefly owned had beautiful birdseye maple, and absolutely no tone or sustain above the 12th fret. That's not the only lacquer dud I've played. Conversely, a friend's mica Legrande (see my avatar) has crazy sustain and tone all over the neck. And then again, my Professional has the best tone of any steel I've played. Go figure (no pun intended).

As far as tone goes, I don't think lacquer/mica is the only deciding factor. I've had to many guitars of both lacquer and mica to be convinced of that. I will say that they certainly sound different, but better or worse is up to the player.

I always have one eye on the stage during breaks, when gigging with a lacquer guitar, nervous that someone is going to tip over my mic stand or something. And I hate to leave it uncovered or unattended. I don't feel as protective of a mica guitar.

[Charles Dempsey]

Why?

Because.

Because why?

[John Billings]

Sheesh!Time to "Stop watching this topic"
Bye!

[Dale Bessant]

Gee thx , now I feel cheap and digusting