Better speaker for a '65 Deluxe reverb re-issue?

Charles Dempsey · Post by **Charles Dempsey** » 3 Dec 2008 8:10 am

I was reading James' post about his blond '65 Deluxe Reverb reissue sounding better than the black ones and Tims's response that it was because it had an alnico Jensen....

So!

I'm thinking about putting a better speaker in my black '65DRRI.

What's a good replacement alnico speaker for this amp? Tim mentions the Jensen P12R and P12Q. Are there others I should consider?

This amp is used for electric 6 string in the rehearsal room and small clubs.

Charlie

Tim Whitlock · Post by **Tim Whitlock** » 3 Dec 2008 11:20 am

I like the Jensen Vintage alnico line. The P12Q might be a good choice, but some think they are excessively bright. I've had good results with Webers, too. Go to www.tedweber.com and look under "Weber Speakers". They make reproductions of the classic Jensen, JBL and Celestion speakers of yore. Ted told me that his 12A125A is a close match soundwise to the famous Jensen Blue Bell speakers of the 50's which are fabulous sounding. It really boils down to what sound you are after. The topic of replacement speakers for the DRRI has been discussed in great length on the Fender Forum. Go to www.fenderforum.com and look in the "Fender Amps: 1985 - Current" forum.

Marc Jenkins · Post by **Marc Jenkins** » 3 Dec 2008 4:10 pm

Here's a link to an article about dropping a Weber 12F150 in a DRRI: http://www.legendarytones.com/fenderdeluxereverb.html

Charles Dempsey · Post by **Charles Dempsey** » 3 Dec 2008 7:54 pm

Thanks!

I was hoping that one of the Jensens was a drop-in solution, but I don't want something that is excessively bright (that's the problem with my Vibrolux RI), so I'm going to research the links.

I appreciate the input.

Charlie

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 3 Dec 2008 8:14 pm

Keep in mind that just about any speaker will be real bright when brand new. Don't let that scare you. It takes dozens or more hours for the paper to soften up and the tone to mellow. This is especially true for the 1" or 1.25" voice coil Alnico types.

The Weber Alnico 12A125A is a real nice one. I've got one here and really like it. It's a bit warmer than the Jensen, but the Jensens are good too.

The Eminence Red Fang is also nice for the vintage and more British alnico flavor.

A JBL D120 is a very popular sound, but different, and it will make the amp real heavy. I'm personally quite addicted to the JBL D120 (or K120) in my guitar amps.

And call me crazy, but I kinda like the Peavey Scorpion 12" speaker in a Deluxe Reverb. It's like a warm JBL in its voicing, not exactly but sort of.

But back to my main point. I've learned that you simply can't install a new speaker and really hear it. It takes a lot of hours of sound vibrations for the harsh treble from new stiff paper cones to soften up and reveal the speaker's real tone voice. I like buying used and broken-in speakers as long as they're perfectly healthy. Then you can save money and enjoy the tone right out of the gate.

Brad

Michael Brebes · Post by **Michael Brebes** » 4 Dec 2008 8:17 am

I am pleased with the Celestion Vintage 30 in my Deluxe Reverb. Nice smooth response and a little louder.

Paul Arntson · Post by **Paul Arntson** » 4 Dec 2008 9:29 pm

I put a Weber California Ceramic 12 with aluminum dust cap in my DRRI. I don't think it would be for everybody. A speaker with a very distinct sound.

Definitely true about the ice pick high end when brand new. I put an oscillator and a bass thru it for a while and it calmed down.
A very Hi-Fi sound. I was trying to get the sound of my old JBL D120 from years ago. No way to really tell, but I find it a very pleasing clean tone.

The Jensen C12K that came with it sounded fine, too. Just something about the D120 style speaker I like.
The Weber is maybe a little louder, too.

Rich Hlaves · Post by **Rich Hlaves** » 4 Dec 2008 10:36 pm

My favorite 12" guitar speaker is the EV SRO 12L. It is a nice warm speaker but still has enough spank to rip your head of when you twist up a Tele. No longer made but still plenty to be had if you know where to look.

Second on the list would be a vintage Jenson C12N from the 50s-60s. Same basic tone but a little easier to carry around. Plain old black face tone here. I like the reissue C12 better than the P12

It is really hard to recomend a speaker, you may get lucky and find one that suits you taste right away. It usually takes a couple until it just feels right. This is a very personal taste issue being part of your overall tone.

RH

Bill Leff · Post by **Bill Leff** » 5 Dec 2008 7:21 am

I had a Weber California ceramic in mine for over a year and eventually went back to the stock Jensen C12K. The C12K is a fine speaker when broken in and a good match for that amp.

I'd suggest a couple of things to improve the DRRI:

1. Clip the bright cap that exists on the Vibrato channel

2. Retube. I use NOS Brimar 6v6s (be sure to rebias) and primarily JJ preamp tubes after trying many different types.

Michael Brebes · Post by **Michael Brebes** » 5 Dec 2008 9:53 am

EVM 12L are back into production, but a very heavy speaker for a small amp. Practically doubles the weight. My favorite speaker as well, but for less weight I stick with my previous recommendation of the Vintage 30 which sounds very similar to the EV.

Mitch Druckman · Post by **Mitch Druckman** » 5 Dec 2008 10:39 pm

I don't think an EVM-12L will fit in a Deluxe Reverb cabinet without bumping the output transformer on the amp. Has anyone installed one yet?

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 6 Dec 2008 4:39 am

just keep in mind that " better" speaker does not automatically equate to "this is the tone I love". It is highly possible that "better" speaker may equate to "I hate this tone, where's my old speaker" !

There are countless quality speakers out there, of which the sonic response curves vary greatly. Some of us love brand A, some brand B, some brand C, but none of us love all 3 !

This past summer I bought a MusicMan 130, 2x12, at a local guitar show, I loved it at the show. But when I got home it was just way too middy, I could not dial in anything for the Steel or Fenders. So, I swapped the speakers with my 2x12 Hot Rod Deville, 2 Eminance Gold Lables. Ok, now I got something to work with, bright, clean overall ok mid range.

Brought it to a gig used it for Steel and the Fenders, so TJ says to me, nice amp, it sounds exactly like your Hot Rod Deville !

So I re-swapped the speakers and sold the MM for more than I paid for it . It was an easy choice, the MM weighed probably 20 pounds more than the HR Deville. This entire exercise was totally related to speakers. The guy that bought the MM wanted it because it had the original MM large magnet, very middy speakers that he loved ! Yes, the same speakers that I hated !

Charles Dempsey · Post by **Charles Dempsey** » 6 Dec 2008 7:22 am

Tony Prior wrote:just keep in mind that " better" speaker does not automatically equate to "this is the tone I love". It is highly possible that "better" speaker may equate to "I hate this tone, where's my old speaker" !

That is true. But while some people prefer A, some B and some C, we all pretty much agree that D sucks

.

My complaint with the Jensen C12K is that at anything more than rehearsal room volume it loses its definition. For lack of a better word it's too flabby. So I'm looking for a tighter sound at higher volumes. More punch.

The stock speaker in my Pro Reverb is a C12N. I love that amp, I use it exclusively for pedal steel, but it's overkill for 6-string.

The D112 would be my choice if I had one, but I'll be the first to admit that I haven't kept up with developments.

Maybe I ought to get a D112 for the Pro and swap the C12N into the Deluxe. Hmmmm.............

Charlie

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 7 Dec 2008 8:08 am

Tim mentions the Jensen P12R and P12Q.

The problem is, if those are the "reissue" Jensens he's talking about they are nothing like the originals. The specs are different, the construction is different, they are *heavily* doped - basically Recoton, an Italian company, bout the Jensen name and rights to the speaker nomenclature. what they didn't get was any engineering, so they are making their own speakers but using Jensen names.

You might as well call them Ital-o-sound..."Jensen" is misleading.

In a DR I prefer the Weber Chicago - it's a pretty clean speaker but with a smooth breakup once it's broken in. Somewhat similar to the California Paul mentioned, but with earlier breakup and a little more smooth distortion when driven really hard. To me, it sounds a lot like my favorite vintage DR speakers, the 12" CTS ceramic magnet model from the mid-70's. It's a VERY strong speaker and (even though it'll handle 50 watts) very efficient....meaning more volume...in a lower-wattage amp like a DR.

I have yet to find a Celestion I like in Fender Amps. The Vintage 30 sounds OK IF you want a heavy midrange-hump, but it's no as evenly balanced as the early Jensens, Weber Chicagos (or Californias), CTS or even a generic Eminence model. The EV to me sound more like a JBL or Weber California, but without the harsh top end of the JBL.

As sot of implied earlier, ALL new speakers need some break-in time and most better ones sound pretty strangled when new - I always run a CD player through an amp with new speaker (at mid-volume in my garage) to break one in, which takes generally from 20-50 hours depending on the speaker. The new Jensens don't break in much at all unless you use nail polish remover (acetone - a flammable solvent, so you have to be extremely careful) to saturate the dope prior to running them. I had a pair of 10's and it took 24 hours of running with periodic acetone applications to loosen them up, then another 20 or so hours of playing to get them broken in - they sound OK now, but without the de-doping they were boat anchors.

Lee Jeffriess · Post by **Lee Jeffriess** » 7 Dec 2008 8:08 pm

I do the same thing Jim.I hook up my 5 disc changer, and random shuffle all kinds of music through the speaker for about 48 hours.
Im thinking of getting a really horrible techno dance cd just for the drums n bass ?.
Kind of off subject, but has anyone tried Weber's 15'' version of the Celestion bulldog?.
I wonder what the trade off would be, taking it up a size.
Lee

Morton Kellas · Post by **Morton Kellas** » 8 Dec 2008 5:42 am

The speaker label in my Deluxe reissue says Jensen special design. What kind of animal is it?

Jim Strawser · Post by **Jim Strawser** » 12 Dec 2008 12:18 am

All I know is if you tell Ted Weber, what is is yur trying to do he can recommend a speaker or speakers to do just that. IMHO that is!

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 12 Dec 2008 5:12 am

I have an original 1965 Deluxe. Right now it has an Eminence Red Ryder in there. (The original Utah is beat.) My tech tried a few Webers with it, but said the Red Ryder sounded way better. I too think the Eminence sounds great, but it does have a pronounced midrange. A little more scooping in the mids would be my preference, but I would like to maintain that powerful growl when you get past 5-6.

Can anyone tell me which speaker matches my preference? Thanks.

Marc Jenkins · Post by **Marc Jenkins** » 12 Dec 2008 9:47 am

Chris, The Red Ryder was voiced to sound much like an Celestion G12-80, supposedly 120 watts! You might email or call Ted Weber with this info, he will certainly have a recommendation.

If you are looking for a scooped-mid sound, you won't really find that with most British-voiced speakers. Did you try and of the Weber 12F150 series?

Chris Gilchrist · Post by **Chris Gilchrist** » 14 Dec 2008 11:20 am

I was trying to tame some of the brightness and harshness of my reissue Deluxe Reverb (even after new tubes and clipping the bright cap), and recently put in an Eminence Cannabis Rex. I'm really liking it - highs are still there, but much smoother. I'd read elsewhere (and agree) that it's a good match for this amp. I thought the stock Jensen was ok after breaking in, but I'm liking the CR much better for my single coil lap steels and 6-string.

mike nolan · Post by **mike nolan** » 14 Dec 2008 4:16 pm

The Tone Tubby alnico has been working really in several Fenders that I gig. Kind of expensive though.