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Topic: More Beginner Issues - Picking Style and Hand Placement |
Chris Harvey
From:
California, USA
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Posted 26 Nov 2008 11:36 am |
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Dilemma - I've been practicing and practicing, reading the forum and watching players. I want to be able to pick up the pace a bit on picking. I see many players like Tommy White (and my teacher locally) use the thumb and middle finger and palm block (from what I can see so does Buddy Charleton). Others use all three fingers and pick block. I also understand that it's personal preference per Tommy White's video, but I don't want to start out with something that will hinder me down the road.
Also, I see some players pick at close to the 24th fret (the sweet spot?) while others pick towards the 17th fret which sounds a bit warmer for obvious reasons.
I hate being in that "guitar by the numbers" phase as it's all too mechanical, but we all have to go through it sometime until things start to flow and you just play.
<b><i>In Short:</i></b>
Can I achieve speed and dexterity with thumb and middle finger or should I throw in that index (or both)? (Palm blocking works better for me)
My teacher also showed me that you can also tuck your ring finger into your palm for additional blocking (this has worked out well) - is this okay?
Where should my hand be on the neck? |
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Mike Cass
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Posted 26 Nov 2008 12:26 pm
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Im no expert, but I would think its whatever gets you the results you seek.
Personally, I tend toward the Thumb&Middle/palm block style w/ the added dimension of ring finger blocking. The ring finger thing is tricky though. Lots of folks do tuck it into the palm, but I found that that tends to make my hand tighten up. Buddy uses/invented(?)the ring finger blocking technique, but for him the tip of the ring finger merely follows the middle fingerpick and perhaps the index as well, blocking then as desired. He described that technique in an article somewhere years ago and after that I started seeing others using versions of it, among them the "tuck".
There's definitely a sweet spot around the 22nd-24th fret on most guitars, but below or above that I tend to get either a harsher or muddier tone, depending.
Youre correct to study the greats; thats where everyone else got it from  |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 26 Nov 2008 5:51 pm
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I'm not an expert top pro, but here are some of my observations.
For palm blocking there are basically two picking hand approaches. Many people keep the little finger extended and block with that finger and the side of the palm, with their hand at about a 45 degree angle to the plane of the strings. An advantage of that is that the little finger can feel the top string and keep your hand positioned that way. It also keeps the ring finger in picking position, so that it can block, or you can put a pick on it and get four-string chords. A disadvantage is that there is a spot where your little finger joins your hand that is not flat and doesn't block well. It seems like most people deal with that by finger blocking. Finger blocking is championed by Paul Franklin and other top pros.
Many palm blockers deal with that little finger joint space by curling their ring and little fingers under and keeping their hand flat in relation to the strings. I've seen some guys do amazing fast picking and blocking (a lot of amazingly fast bouncing) that way. But I use a pick on my ring finger and prefer the little finger extended method above. I've seen guys a hundred times better than me use both methods, so it's a matter of personal preference.
The sweet spot for rich mellow picking is an octave above the bar. Really skilled players move their picking hand to match the bar. Most playing seems to be from the 3rd fret to the 10th with the bar. An octave above that is the range from the 15th to 22nd frets. The frets are so close together up there that you can get most of the sweet effect by simple picking near the 20th fret, or even the 24th fret. You don't really need to be exactly an octave above the bar. You just need to be in that general area. When your bar moves into the upper octave, then you do need to move your picking hand to the right of the 24th fret. So practically speaking, you just need to move your picking hand between two sweet spots, near the 20th fret when your bar is in the first octave, and beyond the 24th fret when your bar moves into the high octave. Also, their is of course a bright spot next to the bridge/changer. It is sometimes nice to go there for more bite, especially when playing on the low strings of C6, Extended E9 or a Universal. Moving between the sweet spot and the "bite" spot at the bridge is like a 6-stringer switching between a neck pickup and a bridge pickup.
Hope some of this helps.
Last edited by David Doggett on 27 Nov 2008 9:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mike Cass
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Posted 27 Nov 2008 6:30 am
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Whatever style you choose, speed and accuracy come from first, relaxed hands.
As a former steel teacher I can tell you that for you being a newer player, the more relaxed and normal your right hand feels(albiet,doing a most unnatural thing; wearing picks,curling fingers,etc)the more effortless will be your striking of the strings. Having spent many hours sitting across from "The Great One" and watching his hands also allows me to tesitfy to this fact.
Im reminded here of Jeff Newman's discussions of the "high index finger knuckle-point" right hand position; making somewhat of an open fist over the strings, keeping the index knuckle-apex high and lining up the median crease with the uppermost string youre exciting at the time, then pick at the strings as if youre tweaking lint from a tweed jacket. This technique fits perfectly with ring finger blocking as the ring fingertip then takes up the open palm area above the crease which David mentioned, and it greatly lessens movement up and down the strings from 1 to 10. You end up moving your thumb and fingers accordingly, while the hand more or less maintains a certain position, thus relaxing the shoulder, forearm, wrist and palm. If you watch any accomplised player whatever their technique, you'll immediately notice that their right hand almost never moves or jumps regardless of whether theyre playing gliss or stacatto. Excessive bouncing or jumping will tense you up and slow you down.
Folks often marvel at how fast and accurate Doug Jernigan is(I call him the Energizer Bunny  ) and comment on how his fingers become a blur.... not his hand, his fingers....and right there is advanced right hand technique worth looking into as well.
That relaxation factor also relates to the left hand in bar pressure, intonation, etc. Whenever Ive seen a player really getting into it and then tensing up(me included)the whole thing usually train-wrecks in short order with a visit to the clam buffet. The longer you practice and play the more you'll discover, but getting them mitts relaxed and placed right on the playing surface is no small matter. Kind of like the 1st year in golf...they call it "Finding the Ground"
Good luck!
MC
ps. for myself I learned early on that bouncing the right hand translates into a thumping sound coming from your amp speaker. If you use any delay this can become troubling, and should you ever find yourself about to commit something to tape, you'll soon get a curious look from the engineer. Id refrain from bouncing, but thats just me  |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 28 Nov 2008 6:22 am
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| Quote: |
| Really skilled players move their picking hand to match the bar. |
I guess I'm not a skilled player, then.  However, I've watched a lot of very famous steelers and rarely do they do that, either! I feel it's a technique reserved for only special times, and it's impractical to try and make your right hand movements mimic your left all (or even most) of the time.
I do agree with what Mike says, though, about being comfortable and relaxed. Stiffness and rigidity, along with excess right hand movement, will never allow you to attain maximum speed. I always tell players not practice just for speed, but to practice first for accuracy, and then to be relaxed. The speed will come naturally when you can play without thinking about what you're doing. If you have to watch your hands, and think about and analyze all the moves you're doing as you're doing them, you'll never be able to play smoothly and rapidly. Your playing must become a reflex action. |
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Chris Harvey
From:
California, USA
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Posted 28 Nov 2008 8:19 am Than You!
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Thanks for all of the words of advice. It's funny I see about the relaxation factor. There have been times were I'm practicing a run and cannot get it clean. I'll keep playing, and have something distract me (like the kids) and, low and behold, the run sounds much smoother as I'm not analyzing it or "thinking" about playing it. I've also noticed when I'm going beyond my speed limit I'll miss a note or three - when I slow down and correct it, it starts to flow again.
"<b>GOOD</b> practice makes perfect; bad practice makes for bad habits." |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 28 Nov 2008 11:55 am
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Gosh, you know it's strange when a person has to go sit down behind their steel, in order to see exactly how they do things, (such as I just had to).
I guess it all comes down to taking most of it for granted. Here's what I found out about myself. "Guess I don't fit in to the pro list either Donny"
I rest my right hand just ahead of the fingers, and pick somewhere between the end of the fretboard and pickup, of which my palm is directly over top of the pickup.
My little finger is (for all practical purposes, curled around the 1st string. And depending on what I'm playing, I noticed at times, my ring finger is extented, other times it's curled under. Again, depending on what string/s I'm playing. But basically, the right hand stays in one place. Single string speeds are mostly (again depending) using my thumb and middle finger only.
About the only time I move from that position is for effects, or when chiming.
Gosh, I learned something I couldn't have answered without having fisrt sat down to really evaluate myself.
But don't do as us Jersey pickers do, cause we ain't suppose to be able to play anyway.  |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 28 Nov 2008 3:52 pm
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Just to clarify, I didn't mean anybody constantly shifts their picking hand around to stay exactly an octave above their bar. I just meant skilled players can do that sort of thing when they want to, as Donny says, for special effects. The rest of that paragraph describes why and how to get most of the advantages of that while staying in one or two sweet "areas."
| David Doggett wrote: |
| So practically speaking, you just need to move your picking hand between two sweet spots, near the 20th fret when your bar is in the first octave, and beyond the 24th fret when your bar moves into the high octave. |
Mostly that second high sweet spot is arrived at without thinking much about it, because when your bar moves up into the high octave, your picking hand will be in the way and you will naturally move it past the 24th fret.
I discovered the sweet spot by watching Bobbe Seymour. Like many beginners, I was picking up near the bridge. I was amazed at the deep, round, harmonically rich tone of Bobbe, and I noticed he was picking over to the left of the 24th fret. I experimented with picking hand position a little and discovered the richest spot was always an octave above the bar, which of course makes sense in terms of harmonics. Then I discovered the frets are so close in the second octave that you just have to be in the general area to get most of the effect. So you can just position your picking hand over in that second octave of frets and stay there. I think that area may be too harmonically rich for some players to stay there all the time, so they settle on the area just beyond the end of the frets (24th fret), which is a compromise between the sweetest spot and the brightness near the bridge. Of course there is no one "correct" spot. Everybody tends to pick the spot(s) that gives them the tone(s) they want. It's part of what is meant by "tone is in the hands." |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 28 Nov 2008 4:38 pm
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| Dave, I'm sure nobody took offense to what you'd said. We knew what you meant.. Besides, I've picked behind the bar at times for effects as well. Try it and see how it goes. Intesting things take place there. |
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