Best way to rent out a steel guitar?

[Jim Cohen]

Over the years, I've often had new students interested in learning steel guitar but who can't afford to buy one. They'd be willing to rent one, however, if they could find anyone who would rent them one. And, of course, they can't.

Now I've got a spare E9 guitar at the house and could conceivably rent it out to a promising student, but have never figured out how to protect myself from someone just giving me the first month's rental and then running off with the guitar.

Other concerns would be damage, loss, etc.

If you were to rent out a guitar, how would you go about it? How would you protect yourself financially?

Or should I just forget the whole thing?

Thanks,
JC

[James Morehead]

Jim, I'd think you'd chance a used Carter Starter, with an agreement on paper and a deposit. Run a credit report. Drive over to THEIR house to meet them, read "sign", THEN make your desicion to proceed or decline.(kinda ryhmes, huh?) Use your gut feeling and read them the best you can. You might ask for a piece of collateral, if you are not feeling too trusting. If it goes south, you will need to go through a ton of grief to get your guitar back in a legal manner, and that would cost you more than the guitar is worth, + your aggravation. Get your payments up front BEFORE they begin, not when 30 days is over. If they go through these firey hoops willingly, they are probably truly interested in learning. If they miss a lesson and fail to communicate, you can start sweating that it's going south from that point. The quality of excuses depends on how good of a salesman they are. If it goes south, start watching ebay for your guitar. (Optimistic old buzzard, ain't I!!) But you have to figure the worst and hope for the best. But It's worth trying, because if you find one good student that appreciates you and what they learn, you have a friend for life.

Instead of going through all this, you might be better off having a used Carter Starter on hand and just sell them the guitar, on time payments, with some collateral. Most can swing that sort of a deal. Let them trade it back to you for a better guitar down the road, that you may have, or buy it back for what they invested(less the lessons) if they want to drop out, as long as the guitar is in reasonable shape. Either way, you have some exposier. JMO

[Dave Mudgett]

I assume this is someone you don't know well.

I don't even think most small music stores will rent out an expensive instrument on their own without significant collateral, much less an individual. One of the medium-sized music stores here rents instruments through a bigger rental program - in this case, Zeswitz Music in Reading. Another (Robert M. Sides) has a big rental program itself. Large programs like this can amortize the cost of enforcing their rental agreements. Of course, maybe you have someone like Vinny from South Philly to do your "enforcement" for you.

As an individual, I would not rent out a professional model steel to someone I wasn't very sure about, somehow or other, unless I had pretty serious collateral - enough to finance enforcement of the agreement if necessary. If they're willing to put up that kind of collateral, why would they not just go out and buy a steel?

I would think about this long and hard.

[A. J. Schobert]

Most music stores rent out school instruments, I would guess a PSG is not one, there is a reason for this.

If you can afford to let your steel get damaged or lost then I would say OK. If it was me I would tell the person that they need a steel if they want to play, I don't want to be in the buisness of renting things out, we all had to go through this.

[CrowBear Schmitt]

i'd ask for a check as collateral if i rented out a steel Jimbeaux
but as Dave mentions :

If they're willing to put up that kind of collateral, why would they not just go out and buy a steel

having a good used Zum Stage One or a Carter Starter to rent out to the beginners would be appropriate imo
less collateral than a new one or a pro model

[Jim Cohen]

Actually, it wouldn't be a Pro model, it would be a student model Carter Starter. And, yes, let's assume it's someone I don't know well. They may seem nice enough, and be well-intentioned enough, but stuff happens in people's lives...

[Al Szwarc]

I'm pretty certain you won't make enough to cover your sleeping pill bills. If you have a steel that you might want to take a chance with, sell it to them. They can make payments to their credit card company. If you want to buy it back its your option. Just have to avoid the situation of having someone dump a wrecked steel on you. Just my opinion. al

[Chris LeDrew]

Hummingbird Music has a pedal steel rental plan that may give you some ideas:

http://www.hummingbirdmusicstudio.com/main.html

[chris ivey]

people should just forget about learning steel, i guess!

[Chris LeDrew]

Jim, when you click on the link, go to the left and click "Sales". You will see "steel guitar rentals". Click on that, and you will see the page.

[Gordy Hall]

Jim,

I can't help wondering about what damage could be done to the Carter Starter if you rented it to a student?

Bent rods? Bar dings? What's the worst that could happen to ruin the guitar?

I would think that 'care and feeding' would be a requirement before they took it home, but if they are a 'serious' student that shouldn't be a problem..just make it part of the first lesson.

And throw in a tuner.

Nothing beats having an instrument to play out your fantasies on...

[basilh]

Jim, here's a quick link ... Rental rates

[Colm Chomicky]

The music stores around here certainly rent instruments that have a price comparible to something like a Carter Starter, if one prices what many school band instruments cost new. I've rented instruments for my kids'to participate in school band. If I recall, there was a rental agreement with the terms and conditions, they may have run a credit check on me, and the ability to charge my credit card, etc. So basically they are renting to a responsible adult (although some people don't think I fit in that category).

As they are in the business of renting instruments in large numbers, they probably take a loss on a few rentals that go bad, but generally their market of serving local school students and renting to the parents has a reduced risk.

I also found the music stores that do business with local school districts also are fairly adept at repairs, so when a rental comes back they have the knowhow and tools to fix. My experience with the music store I dealt with had no problems fixing a dent in a brass instrument as the result of a football game mishap. They just shrugged their shoulders like "that happens" and fixed their rental instrument for no extra charge other than just the monthly rental.

So ideally you would probably have to be both a businessman and a steel repair man in the long run. But, at least steels don't go out in a marching band, get set down on chairs during orchestra practice, beachers during pep rallies, etc. Take a look at how child-proof the steel may be. If I was a 10 year old with a professional steel, I probably would have unscrewed everything unscrewable.

[Donny Hinson]

(In my best Jimmy Durante voice...)

"Everybody wants to get into the act!"

To me, buying an instrument shows the player has, at least, some committment to try and learn. Where nothing is invested (other than a rental fee, which wouldn't buy a good bar), a student would be more likely to be very cavalier about your guitar.

I could be wrong, but I believe people who don't have the dedication to raise a few hundred to buy an instrument are likely not to have the dedication necessary to learn, what is, a very difficult and complex instrument.

[Jim Cohen]

Donny, you may be right but I think we need to remember that people don't necessarily start out with that level of dedication. A lot of people, especially younger folks, would like to try it out for awhile and see how they like it before making a large financial commitment to it. There's nothing wrong with that, IMHO. It's no different than with any other instrument: rent a violin or sax for 6 months, take some lessons, see how it goes and if by then you've 'caught the bug' and feel like you're making decent progress at it, then make a larger financial commitment. I think it's not reasonable to expect everyone to start out passionate about an instrument they've never tried, and barely ever seen.

[John Bechtel]

I wouldn't loan or rent my steel guitars or amplifiers to my best friend for even one night! Of course, I don't really have that much of a chance of running into that sort of problem!

[Al Szwarc]

When I started, I had an acoustic guitar with a riser bar on the nut. Tuned to E7. You can get some good ideas of what the instrument is all about from that. There are lots of ways to start to get the basic feel. Why would anyone have to start with a full pedal guitar especially if he doesn't have the cash for the investment. While I will be the first to say a great instrument can provide the satisfaction of good sounds. If you don't have the green you might try to learn without pedals.

As to what kind of damage could someome do to a pedal steel, you could stress it the wrong way and break the end plate on the tuning end. That's not an easy or cheap fix.

[Larry Sewell]

Jim

I, like Al started on a flat-top with a raised nut.
If I wanted to continue after 12 lessons on the flat-
top, we had to buy a lap-steel. They offered two models, a Oahu 6 string w/a small tube amp for about
$150.00 or a Fender 6 string w/a small amp.
I took lessons for about two years, and dumb me quit.
I stored the guitar in the attic for about 40 years.
After my wife died, I got it out, then went on to buy
a single neck Mavrick, a single neck Beck, and then
a D-10 Emmons.
If I were doing it, I'd try and pick up a couple of
cheap single necks, and after the 12 weeks on the flat top, (and they wanted to continue) rent them
a single neck with an option to buy.

[Nick Reed]

I learned a good hard lesson back in the 70's when I loaned out one of my Fender amps. I had a hard time getting it returned afterwards, just to find out that the speaker had gotten blown. The SOB that borrowed it wouldn't even pay for the damage. I learned then, never again. I never ask others to let me play their guitars, because I don't want them playing mine. Especially When it comes to a $3000 pedal steel. . . . .I say NO WAY!
I wouldn't even start to consider renting out any of mine. But i'm very particular about my instuments.

[Jim Cohen]

When it comes to a $3000 pedal steel. . . . .I say NO WAY! I wouldn't even start to consider renting out any of mine.

OK, but keep in mind, this is not a $3,000 pedal steel. It's a $500 used Carter Starter.

[Pete Woronowski]

Jim, we do this but on a large scale so damage which is very little but does happen is absorbed by revenue.
One thing you may want to consider is renting out time on your steel.

This way the steel stays at your home and under your care, the rental of time would be less than a rental where they take it home but your concerns for the most part would be taken care of.

To give you an example of rental costs a Carter Starter would rent for 58.00 per month.
If you were to rent time you might expect to see 15.00 per hour, the trick would be to get more people renting time.

Hope this helps, Take Care, Pete

[Bob Blair]

If you have an ok feeling about the student and want to do it, I would (after checking the student out, making sure you know where they live etc.) maybe just get a deposit of like a hundred bucks, set whatever you think the rental rate should be, and recognize that you are taking a four hundred dollar risk. I've taken a couple of risks with young players getting into the game and I'm glad I did. Those guys are gigging today, and I helped that happen. If it goes south it goes south, and you'll have a bad taste in your mouth, and that is the biggest risk you are running.

[Jim Cohen]

Yeah, Bob, that's kinda what I'm thinking. Plus this: If I can get by with the first one, it's much less risk the next time. Here's why: Let's say I rent it for $50 a month. In 10 months I've paid for the thing and could actually use the cash to buy another one to rent out to someone else. After 10 months of consistently paying his rental, the first guy is probably reliable, so my risk with him is minimal (plus my investment in the guitar is paid off anyway). Now I have cash coming in on two guitars but risk on only one, so my single risk is spread over 2 guitars.

Make sense?

[Bob Hoffnar]

If that student is taking regular lessons you will be making money from the lessons and the rental. You should pay for your steel within 2 months that way. After that its all gravy. Have the student pay forward on a batch of lessons along with the rental. You won't be very exposed that way. I don't bother with a rental steel anymore because (I did a short experiment with one) the guys that wanted to rent were basicly tire kickers with no real interest. Lots of emails and talking. Not worth the trouble.

[Bo Borland]

Jim, how did your son get started on sax? Did you rent a horn from musicman?