Long time listener, first time caller. Need some advice.

Justin Hughes · Post by **Justin Hughes** » 18 Nov 2008 8:32 pm

First off all I'd like to say hello to all members here on TSGF. I've browsed the forum on and off for a year or so for info, but just recently joined as I've decided to stop just thinking about buying a lap steel and buy one (as soon as I convince my wife).

To give you some background I'm a rhythm guitar player in a three guitar, bass and drum outfit. I'm an avid music fan and my listening interests so far as the steel are rooted mainly in early country and blues. While I enjoy Hawaiian steel songs I plan on focusing initially on the former while playing some classic stuff around home and seeing how I can use that in my band's original music.

I can only afford to spend about $300 on my first lap steel. I assume I'll employ my old Super Reverb. I realize I'll need a bar and some learning materials. So, ladies and gents, I implore your knowledge and experience.

Considering my interests, would I be best served with a 6, 7 or 8 string steel?

I gather it'd be in my interests to buy vintage. I have a soft spot for Epiphones, but I don't see lap steels for sale too often and they seem to command a price out of my budget. All recommendations are on the table.

What tuning should I begin with?

What type of bar do you recommend?

What learning materials do you recommend?

I do not have a musical theory background.

I appreciate your help in advance.

Many thanks,
Justin

William Clark · Post by **William Clark** » 18 Nov 2008 9:27 pm

Justin: I found a 1957 Champ lap steel in an antique mall two years ago for $200. I bought it with the idea of spinning it for a profit but wound up getting bit by the Steel Guitar Bug and decided to learn how to play! I have played guitar and mandolin for 20 years so the steel guitar should be a piece of cake, right? Wrong!!

Needless to say, it seems that I spend any free time that I have trying to play steel. It is a very challenging instrument. Once you start playing you realize just how good Bud Issacs, Speedy West and Don Helms were!

A great place to start is the Cindy Cashdollar Western Swing DVD's. I also went through the Scott Dewitt C6 course that is available from the forum. It comes with a CD and doesn't require a knowlege of music theory. I have also started to go through the Don Helms course that is available through the forum. Also, don't forget the Forum. It is invaluable!

I have a bunch of different bars, but the one I seem to always reach for is just the standard Jim Dunlap Bullet.

The Super Reverb should be a great sounding amp for lap steel.

Good luck and I hope this helps!

Bill Clark

Justin Hughes · Post by **Justin Hughes** » 18 Nov 2008 9:31 pm

Thanks, William. Well, I haven't played guitar for 20 years so I guess I'm in for a heck of a challenge. But, I figure learning and practicing the lap steel can only make me a better six string picker. Thanks for the advice!

Dom Franco · Post by **Dom Franco** » 18 Nov 2008 11:33 pm

Here's my two cents...

1. Start with a six string. There is a lot to learn with out complicating the process with more strings.

2. Tune it to a sixth tuning (C6th, A6th E6th) because this gives you full major and minor chords in every key.

3. And at first it will be best to just play chords
to songs you already know. (instant gratification)

4. Soon you will start hearing little slides and licks, two string harmonies etc. you will be able to jam with some other guitar players.

5. Then you will be ready for more serious instruction. (videos, tablature private lessons)

WELCOME TO THE WONDERFUL WORLD OF STEEL GUITARS!
it's a life-long pursuit. I have been at it over 45 years, and I still can't get enough!

Dom Franco

Tom Pettingill · Post by **Tom Pettingill** » 19 Nov 2008 1:16 pm

Welcome to the forums Justin

For a steel, keep your eye on the forums for sale section, I've seen some good deals go through there that would make you a fine guitar.

Paul Kemper · Post by **Paul Kemper** » 19 Nov 2008 1:59 pm

Hello Justin and welcome to the forum.

My situation is somewhat like yours. I play rhythm guitar and recently bought a 6 string Chandler lap steel. I fooled around with a few tunings and have, for the time being, settled on E7. For starting out it seems quite intuitive. For example, for just chording it is much like playing barre chords on a standard guitar. FWIW, I'm now kind of wishing I had bought an 8 string steel as it would be easier to try different tunings.

Best of luck.

Paul

Rich Hlaves · Post by **Rich Hlaves** » 19 Nov 2008 3:09 pm

Paul Kemper wrote:I'm now kind of wishing I had bought an 8 string steel as it would be easier to try different tunings.

I've been at it almost two years now and play mostly what you are considering. C6 or A6 is definately what to use for the county tunes when begining. The standard "Sleep Walk" although not country per sey, works well in C6 and the Georgeboards DVD will get you through it easily since you already play regular guitar.

If you are going to play blues, another tuning will make it easier and sound better. I like E7 for blues as the first three strings are the same as an open E and the 7th works well for blues chording.

I'm not really sure where Paul is coming from with the statement that more tunings are available with an 8 string. More notes maybe but not more tunings IMO. I started with a six string Fender Studio Deluxe I built from parts obtained on ebay. I now own several steels both 6 and eight string. I have not ventured beyond C6, E7 & A6 tunings at this point other than just to fool around occationally.

I agree with the above that there are some good deals here on the forum classifieds. You have to get up early each day to grab the hot buys. Living on the West Coast and three hours behind the east, most of the items I have really been interested in have been sold by the time I wake up!

Rich Hlaves · Post by **Rich Hlaves** » 19 Nov 2008 3:27 pm

The whole intention of my post was to put up a link to a Dynalap Sonny Miller has for sale on the SGF. I forgot! Nice steel for the money it you want to start with an 8 string.

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=145714

RH

Justin Hughes · Post by **Justin Hughes** » 19 Nov 2008 4:07 pm

Thanks for all the advice thus far. Keep it coming! Can anyone help me out with what a "bump" is on this forum?

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 19 Nov 2008 5:15 pm

Justin Hughes wrote:Thanks for all the advice thus far. Keep it coming! Can anyone help me out with what a "bump" is on this forum?

Colloquialism for the making of a new post to elevate the thread to the top of the postings list...

As for tunings, being as you're a rhythm guitarist and you'll associate the third fret with the key of G and the 6th fret with Bb and so on, the E13th 8 string tuning will do most things you want AND you'll have the added bonus of knowing INSTANTLY your home position i.e. Ab is the 4th fret and its sub dominant or 4 chord is available partially there also (Just like on the regular guitar)
Now I mean the E13th with E as the top note, not the E13th that's just a mirror of the C6/13 moved four frets.

To a regular guitarist the mindset change to relate to the C6 positions is a barrier to quick, natural positional thinking..

I should know as I started on regular guitar and made the transition with relative ease and NO Books or DVD's to help (Not way back then)
BAsil

Justin Hughes · Post by **Justin Hughes** » 19 Nov 2008 5:35 pm

Thanks, Basil. That makes a lot of sense.

Question: Do 7 string lap steels basically have one more treble string and 8 string lap steels one more treble and one more bass strings?

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 19 Nov 2008 5:42 pm

Better to have the Bass strings as extras and keep to the E top note, it relates more easily, AND any note higher than E usually requires an .011" string either G or G# dependant of your tuning choice: Either way it's likely to sound a little "Thin" on top, and also will require dexterity with picking strengths to balance the thin string's lower volume with the rest. In My Humble Opinion.

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 19 Nov 2008 5:53 pm

N.B. This ALL relates to G..around the third fret

Example 1
3rd fret strings 1 3 and 4 = G
3rd fret Strings 1 2 and 4 = Em
Therefore using this grip Gm will be up 3 frets from G home.

Example 2
3rd fret strings 1 and 2 are the third and fifth of C and do as a partial chord, ADD the 4th string and you have an IMPLIED Cmaj7 AND, with a "Split Slant" a C7.
Up two give you the dominant chord for the key of G = D7

Example 3
Strings 1 2 and 4 Down two frets (from home)and you have an Implied G7 or G9th

Example 4
Strings 1 2 and 3 as a "Split Slant at the third fret = Gdim
And so on,
You can relate most happenings in any given key to a "Pocket of just two up and down from "Home"..Just the same as you would playing rhythm guitar.

Jim Mitchell · Post by **Jim Mitchell** » 20 Nov 2008 10:01 am

If you are going to be playing in C6 use my site go to Guitar pages there is some good easy single note FREE C6 tab there

MY SITE

http://www.geocities.com/insp/SUPRO6420.html

Good luck