Bob Wills is driving me nuts....

[Reece Anderson]

Ron W....I very respectfully disagree with your comment about solos at that time not being revered. Everyone I knew tried to memorize and copy all the great players like Joaquin, Noel and others, and we all emulated their sound, which was our best and pretty much our only opportunity to learn.

In my opinion "pure listening" to the performance of the players was very prevalent because there was much more to hear and be appreciated than just the vocals, partially because the solos were much longer and featured the players.

Andy V.....You're right, Bob Wills knew how to keep them dancing, but he also knew hold to keep a huge crowd around the bandstand. He done so with his showmanship while directing the band with his fiddle bow. It was like being at a tennis match in that when he pointed his bow telling someone to play a solo, every head turned while following his bow. He would then encourage the player to give it all they had by calling the names of the players and saying things like ahhhh.hhhhaaaaa. Both to the musicians and crowd it placed Bob's stamp of approval on the players and the crowd accepted and loved it.

I respectfully disagree with your comment that Bob's band never played over the peoples head. Many of Bob's musicians were jazz and big band lovers and enthusiasts, and working with Bob provided them the opportunity to step into that type music and continuously improvise and play big band arrangements on strings.

[Jody Sanders]

What Maurice said on both posts. Way to go Reece. Jody.

[Ron Whitfield]

I did say "not nearly", instead of 'not' revered, as I certainly am aware there were legions of fans and musicians that hung onto all that stuff, just not as much as today. Or, am I wrong again?

I'd agree that Wills and The Boy's could easily play over some heads, often without trying.

Thanx for the responses, Reece. I love being taken to task by one of our favorites!
We don't hear enuf from you.

[Don Kona Woods]

I can't remember if it bothered me!

Aloha and Happy Thanksgiving,
Don

[Billy Tonnesen]

Identifying musicians on the CD is still alive and thriving. As an example listen to the "John England" CD's. Not only does he identifiy who is playing a chorus but also makes comments when they are all playing parts together. It sounds like the band is really "in the groove" and really enjoying playing together almost like a live performance. I think Bob Wills influenced the band's style.
Many other Western Swing groups are doing the same thing on their new releases. To me, it identifies the music as "non-Nashville".

[AJ Azure]

I respectfully disagree with your comment that Bob's band never played over the peoples head. Many of Bob's musicians were jazz and big band lovers and enthusiasts, and working with Bob provided them the opportunity to step into that type music and continuously improvise and play big band arrangements on strings.

'Jazz' of the time wasn't Jazz of bop, free jazz, etc.. SO it wasn't over people's head in the same way. melodies could be hummed. Even solos. 20 minute chord scale bop solo craziness is over many people's heads. Jazz isn't for everyone anymore. Jazz back then was more 'pop'

[Reece Anderson]

Ron W....Thank you for your kind and courteous response.

Since I have been blessed to play in both era's, I would have to say (for me) the originality of styles in the swing era exhibited more personal musical identity and freedom. I could immediately identify Joaquin, Noel, Herb, Koefer and others, while today it is much more difficult to discern one player from the other because the market dictates identifiable steel guitar sounds.

Although on many recordings of today it's difficult to discern one player from the other, we all know that when they "take off their gloves" and start playing jazz, be-bop and swing, many of the recording steel players are as good as anyone who has ever held a bar.

Please don't feel you're being taken to task, I greatly respect your opinion and your entitlement to it. Its a pleasure to talk with you.

Billy T....Thank you for telling me of John England and his willingness to share the spotlight and identify other band members. I'm sure there are also others and its comforting to know. When playing swing in this part of the country the Bob Wills tradition is still alive and well.

[Doug Beaumier]

(deleted)

[Chris LeDrew]

Here's one without any scatting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmfo5h_A ... re=related

Bob Wills is wicked! And I know that's Bobby Koefer on steel because of the way he's holding the bar. I've learned so much around here in the last few years it's scary.

[Craig A Davidson]

Yeah Bob's talking so angered people that in 1944 he only made about 150,000 bucks. People lined up around the block at Venice Pier to see him. That hollering almost ruined the man. I will take Bob and any line-up he ever had over most of what I hear today.

[Marc Jenkins]

I don't mind Bob's hootin' so much, just the fact that it's the LOUDEST THING IN THE MIX when he does it, drowning out the dude playing lead. In every song. During every solo.

[Craig A Davidson]

Well Mark, Bob's music was made for dancing. Also the musicians never knew when their break was coming. Just because you played it this way last night didn't mean that's the way it would always be. When Bob pointed that bow at you, you smiled and played and when you were done you smiled and gave it back to him. He was a musical icon and legend. People would come to his dances and put their babies up on the stage so they could dance. The music to me is great to listen to, but if you are listening and don't get the urge to dance you must be ill. By the way Ray Benson calls out his players too and Merle Haggard at times has done the same thing. The stuff sure beats Rascal Flutts and Kenny Cheesey.

[Blake Wilson]

So......

To refresh my original question: are there any recordings of BWATTP that feature less talking and scatting and "AHHHHHAA's"? Again, I have the standard "Best of" packages, but there's quite a bit of other material available that I'd like to check out with some guidance from the experts here.

Chris, thanks for that YouTube video of "Fiddlin' Man". My guess for the reason there's no scattin' is...no one solos? Or because it's obviously a promo type film? This type of material is precisely what I'm looking for, and shows that there is at least ONE BWATTP tune that hasn't got Bob talking over the music.

I know some of the guys on the list played with Bob and I respect their opinions deeply, and I know some see this type of performance as a showcase for the soloists. I see it as the opposite: it sounds like the bandleader is unwilling to really let the spotlight hit the soloist by constantly reminding the audience who's (literally) "calling" the shots. Sure, there are different styles and approaches to all forms of music, but (since he was brought up earlier), imagine Duke Ellington butting in during a solo! There's a great late 1950's video of a Miles Davis TV show, showcasing the Miles band of the era backed by an orchestra. When John Coltrane (or the other players) solos, Miles steps offstage, where he's still visible, watching Coltrane and smoking a cigarette. I know we're talking apples and oranges here...or are we?

Regards,

Blake

[Alvin Blaine]

I have a Maddox Brothers & Rose album playing while I'm reading this. I was listening to some old Roy Nichols guitar solos, and I love this old Maddox Brothers stuff.
With that, I want to warn anyone, if you don't like Bob Wills talking and crowing on songs, then DO NOT ever listen to any Maddox Brother & Rose recordings. They talk, scream, yell, laugh, cry, and giggle over solos, turnarounds, vocals, and sometime through the whole song. Me I LOVE it!

[Marc Jenkins]

Craig, I've got nothing against the music. In fact, I love it. It's not the calling the solos that gets me, it's the ahhhh boy! etc. that happens a little too often. I would probably listen to Wills more if there was less of the hootin'.

[Chris Scruggs]

Billy,

Thanks for the kind words about John England and the Western Swingers. I play with them from time to and it really is a treat. Though I wouldn't describe them "Non-Nashville". All in the band are Nashville musicians who are based in, perform in, and record in Nashville. While there is a lot of bad commercial music coming out of this town, let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. John England is proof that there is still music in music city!

Chris

[Reece Anderson]

First of all may I say I'm not trying to defend Bob's approach to success, which is now legendary and need not be defended. Knowing him as I did provided me a clear understanding (at least for me) of a man and his music which created a style of music that has brought happiness and enjoyment to millions of people.

Mark J....You're right in that Bob was heard very clearly on some recordings. His doing so set him apart and made him identifiable and unique to millions of his fans, most of which were not musicians listening intently for every note played, as you and a few others did, myself included.

Blake W....Never once did I, nor any of Bob's musicians I have ever known, express to me even the most vague thought that Bob was taking the spotlight away. In reality he was making it shine brighter on the players while acknowledging a solo well played or being played, and the audience responded with approval.

For the musicians and the fans his presence was musically inspiring, motivational and kept those watching and listening enthused, excited and participating in his uniqueness and willingness to share the spotlight while keeping his fans entertained.

In closing may I say I respect all points of view. My perspective as an insider is perhaps somewhat clouded, possibly because I was fortunate to be on the other side of the lights while enjoying being a small part of what's now history.

[Al Johnson]

Well I am so happy anytime I hear anything by Bob Wills One of my favorite songs sung by him he recorded it in the early 60s Goodnight Little Sweetheart Goodnight.yes, Bob sings it and it includes a beautiful steel solo maybe Billy Bowman I don't remember on the Liberty label.
Older records by Louis Armstrong from 30s and 40s also feature Louis talking and introducing musicians.
On the live shows Tex Williams, Spade Cooley and many others always said the players names. For instance watch and listen to the great Wesley Tuttle on Youtube singing Yodeling Boogie.
Just enjoy what they all did music was great and fun not like some today. Al

[Roger Shackelton]

I once saw a video interview with some of Bob's musicians.
Johnny Gimble was talking about the time he went to work for Bob Wills. He asked Tiny Moore, "What does Bob expect of his musicians." Tiny said that Bob had told him, "Son when I point my bow at you, I want you to play everything you know".


Roger

[Ric Epperle]

Here's something some of you guys might find interesting...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h4de8s9d-0

Truitt Cunningham is leading the band. Back in the late 60,s, I started my music career playing drums with Truitt. My dad was Truitt's steel player at that time.
How many of you recognize the other players?

[Dave Mudgett]

I guess this thread proves that someone can find something negative to say about any music. I have known jazz lovers who complained about Charlie Parker's tone, and others who think Bird was God, and instead argued that Miles Davis was a no-chops hack in comparison. Or that Oscar Peterson's grunting was an annoying artifact. Whatever.

I personally found Wills' aaaaah...hhaaa perfect - it wouldn't be Wills without it. I can listen to him all day long. It's fun music, it's dance music, it's also great swing jazz. He was not only a musician, but a popular bandleader and entertainer. A certain level of schtick is perfectly understandable to me - he was trying to entertain regular folks, who - well, like to be entertained. There was some schtick and entertainment value in mainstream (I mean city folks') swing jazz at the time - it doesn't bother me a bit either. It is what it is. I think it's possible to take all this too seriously.

I double what was said about John England and the Western Swingers. Monday nights in Nashville are great. Catch John and the boys at Roberts early (something like 6pm I think), and then you can go catch the Time Jumpers later on at the Station Inn. Tommy Hannum was playing with John when I saw them in July - then Paul Franklin was with the Time jumpers later. How much of this do you think there would be without the influence of Bob Wills?

Carry on - these are just my opinions.

[Ron Page]

A single LP won't give you a ton to go on, but Merle Haggard's "Tribute to the Best Damned Fiddle Player in the World -- My Salute to Bob Wills" is the best way I've ever found to enjoy Bob's music. Merle does some calling during the breaks but not to the point of being at all annoying. Several Texas Playboys played on the album. Plus, you get to hear Norm Hamlet play it with pedals-- a more modern sound than the originals have.

[Don Drummer]

It was educational too, as in: "Here comes Johnny Gimble on that Mandolin...smallest little instrument in the world...yas."

[Brint Hannay]

Isn't that "biggest little instrument"?

Blake--Just my opinion, but while there are plenty of studio recordings of BWATTP that have less of Bob's hooting and talking, for my money the Tiffany Transcriptions have it all over them for the relaxed, live energy of the performances. They're my favorite Wills recordings.

[Ron Whitfield]

One of my all-time faves, and way underestimated/appreciated. They too got rowdy with the music but never in an overly ubtrusive way. Incredible how they lived the entire 'Grapes Of Wrath' story and then wrote another entire book of awesome music history after they survived that Steinbeck-told experience.
Plus, they and Rose loved steel and usually had one on record or stage.

Anybody know how Bud Duncan (steel) is doing?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6REr75P93k&NR=1
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-fJVn33JKM&feature=related
www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTlVhFH1VA8&feature=related