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Topic: Question about Fender Twin Reverbs... |
Kyle Dosskey
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Posted 4 Nov 2008 6:43 pm |
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| Are the earlier, master volume models considered "better" than the non-master volume silverfaces? If so, why is that? Seems to me a master-volume knob could be kind of useful... |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 4 Nov 2008 8:27 pm
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Well -
First, the master volume models are LATER models (most had it around late '72 or so...models vary, and some like the Deluxe Reverb never had a MV). The blackface (up to mid '67; although CBS bought Fender in '65 it wasn't until the SF era that engineering changes showed up) and earlier silverface models did not have a master volume.
And no, you have it backwards as far as desirability as well - the master volume models are considered one of the "low points" of Fender's design eras under CBS. A combination of cheap parts, poor lead dress resulting in addition of parts to overcome parasitic oscillation, poor cabinet construction and an abysmal execution of master volume implementation make them the cheap bargains among Fender's vintage amps. MOST of the lousy stuff can be modified or compensated for, and the whole trick with the master volume/boost knob is keep the master on 10 ALWAYS and NEVER pull the "boost" knob.
Fender's CBS engineers never understood what other companies were doing with master volume - they advertised it as a way to get some distortion at any volume level, but the preamp design had such low gain the distortion is ratty, tinny and sounds nothing like a comparable Marshall MV model or later Soldano, Rivera, Mesa and others - because the CBS engineers understood electronics theory - but not tone. Cascading gain stages, different voltages...there were a lot of ways they could have gone rather than what was simply "turn up the low-gain preamp, turn down the power amp".
One missing component in the "distortion" was that guitarists are used to hearing power amp distortion - and not just preamp distortion. Amp companies who designed effective MV circuits changed parts values and circuitry to give the cranked-up preamp more "guts", while Fender, with no experience, simply thinned out the sound with a buzz-bombed preamp tube.
The Fender MV amps are NOT amps that allow you to get a full, fat, round tone at lower volume. As you'll read on 6-string forums and amp tech boards, the overall recommendation is not to remove the MV - just pretend it's not there and never move it of "10", then do many of the blackface conversions that warm the amp up. For steel, however, you might want to just have one serviced, modify it for an adjustable bias (essential with today's tubes) and play it - it's be a good clean amp for louder playing situations.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Kyle Dosskey
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Posted 4 Nov 2008 10:31 pm
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| Thanks for the explanation, Jim, that pretty much summed up the answers I was looking for right there. Yeah I apologize for the confusion, I got the MV and non-MV mixed-up as I was typing that question out while watching hockey/elections at the same time, what I meant to ask was whether and why the earlier non-mv models were more desirable. But you gave me all the information right there so thanks again. |
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Papa Joe Pollick
From:
Swanton, Ohio
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Posted 5 Nov 2008 4:39 am
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| As usual,Mr. Sliff said it like it is..Those few words are all we need to know about Fenders "Edsel".. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 9 Nov 2008 5:08 am
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IMHO, the master-volume Twins are a pretty good steel amp. Like Jim says, set the master volume at "10" and leave it there. For PSG, I recommend setting all amp volume/gain controls at "10" (master, as well as the indivudual channel volume), and then using your volume pedal as the sole volume control. You'll have a much better tone, and better sustain, as well.  |
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