What gives the Shobud it's sound?

Glen Derksen · Post by **Glen Derksen** » 28 Oct 2008 3:46 pm

I think the best way to clarify my point is like this:
Take two guitars. A Telecaster and a Les Paul. The two guitars sound as different from each other as day and night...Why? simply because the two have comepletely different electronics, different types of wood, different hardware, and different construction. Add up all those factors and you get two guitars that are not going to sound the same no matter who plays them. I was wondering if it's the same way with steel guitars. I have made a study of as many Shobud players as possible, and true, none are identical, but they still have the same basic tone. Shobuds, at least to my ears have a more trebly, mid-rangey tone, whereas Emmons, for example have more of a "throaty' type of tone. I hope that explains it.

Don Brown, Sr. · Post by **Don Brown, Sr.** » 28 Oct 2008 4:03 pm

Ah! Now I get it. And, Paul's sounds like a "Franklin."

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 28 Oct 2008 4:05 pm

Ray Montee wrote: The point is NOT "TONE"...............

It is "a most unique SOUND"

IMHO, the inherent futility of discussions like this one is only increased by attempts to split hairs about words whose meanings are A) nebulous and B) synonymous.

"TONE" = "TIMBRE" (look 'em up) = "SOUND" (in this context)

Glen Derksen · Post by **Glen Derksen** » 28 Oct 2008 5:47 pm

I think TONE would be the operative word here. Treble, bass, midrange, and everything in between.

Larry Bressington · Post by **Larry Bressington** » 28 Oct 2008 5:54 pm

Sho-bud sounds good with a monkey on it,
Ask Clyde!

Joking, hey we know thats not really true!

Jack Dougherty · Post by **Jack Dougherty** » 28 Oct 2008 6:21 pm

OK.. so my question is, who's playing it?

Glen Derksen · Post by **Glen Derksen** » 28 Oct 2008 6:25 pm

Larry Bressington wrote:Sho-bud sounds good with a monkey on it, nuff said!

That's good, then I should feel right at home on one.

Lem Smith · Post by **Lem Smith** » 28 Oct 2008 7:08 pm

I agree that a Sho~Bud has its own unique sound, regardless of who is playing it. To me, it's kind of a "woody" sound. Likewise, an Emmons PP has its own unique sound too, one which has been described here on the forum as bell like, and also I've read where it was described as a more metallic type sound.

Perhaps it has something to do with most Sho~Bud's having wood necks, and most PP's having metal necks, although the metal neck Pro III's and the wood neck PP's would seem to counter that.

The difference between Sho~Bud and other brands is hard to describe. I'm not saying it's better or worse than any other brand, just different. I know that Lloyd's Sho~Bud sound during the Little Darlin' era had more of a mid-range sound to it, but I have no idea how much of that was caused by amp, mixing console, playing technique, etc... Anyway, whatever the cause, you can just "tell" that it was a Sho~Bud that he was playing.

Later things he played on, like some of Don Williams' hits and Farewell Party by Gene Watson, sounded completely different tone wise, yet still had that certain "Sho~Budness" about them.

I dunno.

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 28 Oct 2008 7:21 pm

Those pot metal knee lever brackets obviously help !

Glen Derksen · Post by **Glen Derksen** » 28 Oct 2008 8:43 pm

I guess what I'm thinking of mostly is Lloyd Green during the late 60's era when he did sessions for Charlie Pride, Tammy Wynette, and some of his own albums. I think back then he may have used a fingertip model (and probably a Fender amp), but I'm not sure.

Don Brown, Sr. · Post by **Don Brown, Sr.** » 28 Oct 2008 8:48 pm

Ok! Since (it's been said) Sho-Buds sound like a Sho-Bud.. I think this will prove a little different.

Listen to this one

Oh no!

Bill Ford · Post by **Bill Ford** » 29 Oct 2008 4:05 am

Don Brown, Sr. wrote:Ok! Since (it's been said) Sho-Buds sound like a Sho-Bud.. I think this will prove a little different.

Listen to this one

Oh no!

Well...If it were in tune, and "if" the amp was set properly, that would help the tone/sound. Sounds like a nondescript PSG through a crappy sounding amp to me.

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 29 Oct 2008 5:41 am

I know; but I'm not telling!!!

Mickey Adams · Post by **Mickey Adams** » 29 Oct 2008 1:19 pm

I currently own a Jackson BlackJack Custom. I have 2 different pickups for it, and a 3rd coming. The first is a blade pickup which is very bright and lively, and attunes itself to older sho-bud guitars that I have owned or played. There are so many factors to consider, and Im sure youre all aware of them. The second is a standard 10 pole, and wound by Jackson to the same specs as most stock sho-bud pickups...they are entirely different. The pole pickup has a much warmer sound with better string seperation.... I guess what Im saying is Sho-Bud is alive in well in Dawn, Dave and Harry Jackson. Their guitars are extremely innovative in their design, and construction, but they havent "lost" anything with regards to tone and quality...
You might all be interested in this: I currently have an aircraft design engineer engaged in doing a resonance study on several guitars. Each component is fitted with multiple sensors that will measure vibrations, tonal charachter, and every other parameter you can think of. So far we have graphed the Jackson BlackJack, the Mullen G2, a Sho_pro, Carter D10, and An Emmons Push-Pull. Of course we're talking just the guitar...No electronic signals..We're trying to determine exactly where most of the tonal response is transmitted to the pickup from. We are also tightening and loosening aluminum necks with a torque wrench, and changing strings from stainless to nickel to graph that as well...thgis might make for some interesting reading shortly

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 29 Oct 2008 3:31 pm

that clip from don sounded more like jerry garcia on a zb!

Larry Bressington · Post by **Larry Bressington** » 29 Oct 2008 3:35 pm

Mickey, thats the way to go, i like the vibration anylyser, i'd like to hear about the results of frequency differences under all those conditions.

Don Brown, Sr. · Post by **Don Brown, Sr.** » 29 Oct 2008 3:55 pm

Mickey,

All kidding aside, that should be a very interesting study..

Please be sure to post the results under something (Heading) that we'll all be able to recognize. I for one, don't want to miss what your findings are.

Thanks,
Don

Jay Yuskaitis · Post by **Jay Yuskaitis** » 29 Oct 2008 5:18 pm

Pure Magic!!!

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 29 Oct 2008 6:57 pm

vibration analyser schmazalyzer...you guys should just go out and pick and have fun and make music!! i can't believe how many forumites are missing the joy and magic of music by sitting at their computers figuring out how to be cool when you could actually 'be' cool by playing for your own and everyone else's enjoyment!

edited to spell something correctly...as opposed to the many who don't think grammar, spelling, etc. are important!

Roger Francis · Post by **Roger Francis** » 30 Oct 2008 6:54 am

Inquiring minds whant to know! sounds interesting to me.

Mickey Adams · Post by **Mickey Adams** » 31 Oct 2008 8:52 am

Chris I can assure you...Im not missing any of the enjoyment of just sitting and playing my guitar. Nor is there really a technical need for me to do this. Its called curiosity, and it may lead to discovery, its all part of the learning process...

Don Brown, Sr. · Post by **Don Brown, Sr.** » 31 Oct 2008 9:17 am

Mickey, go for it.. Maybe some folks don't want to know the truth of your findings.

It could open up a whole lot more than what appears to be presently known.

Wow! It's almost worth me sending my steel out so you could hook up to her, to see how well she fits into the picture. But, I'm afraid ya just might sit down to the old war piece, and want to talk me out of her.

She's certainly been a keeper

Darrell Hodges · Post by **Darrell Hodges** » 31 Oct 2008 10:06 am

Hey Mickey,

I too would like to hear the outcomes of this study. Are you going to include a GFI in your studies? I am a newbe player...started playing a GFI in December and some day I would like to upgrade if necessary.

By the way you have been a great inspiration on You Tube with all your insrtuction. My teacher is in poor health and sometimes is unable to teach me and you have bridged that gap. Thanks soooo much!!!!

Darrell Hodges

Larry Bressington · Post by **Larry Bressington** » 31 Oct 2008 12:39 pm

I lived on the road for 10 years straight, chris, i'm ready for a little waveform anaylisis.
'Time away' is as important as 'time on' we know its not about tone improvment or playing improvement, its about frequency changes with torque at certain locations, its a theory class.
I hope my grammer was correct, most edits are because of mis typo's, not actual spelling mistakes and i dont beleive we are trying to be 'cool'

Mickey Adams · Post by **Mickey Adams** » 1 Nov 2008 7:40 am

As of right now we do not have a GFI on the list, We have aquired a JCH guitar which will be headed there Monday, as well as A Zum Hybrid, and a stock 95 ZUM. As for whos going to play it...The strings will be struck mechanically with varying forces, without being dampened of course. Input from several sources as to how we shoudld proceed is abounding at this point. Thank you all for your sggestions and input.
Mickey...in Taos NM today..

The Steel Guitar Forum

What gives the Shobud it's sound?

Re: SONNY, and I was depending on you...................

Jackson/Sho-Bud

Chris

tonal analyzer

Gfi