power amp verses combo,

Lewis John Foote · From: Dorset, UK

howdy, if one was going to change there set up and use a rack system, would a power amp, - delay,dd3- and graphic equaliser, do the business,? lew.
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pro1,s two round fronts, one square front, sho-bud, S12, LDG,1977, built by paul franklin sen, [THE PROFESSIONAL]nice all original, bandit65, nash, 400, profex 11,match-box, 7A,DD3, delay,various accoustic guitars, amps, and other necessitys,

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Don't you need a preamp Lew?

Lewis John Foote · From: Dorset, UK

howdy, is my match-box,7a, considered to be preamptive, lew
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pro1,s two round fronts, one square front, sho-bud, S12, LDG,1977, built by paul franklin sen, [THE PROFESSIONAL]nice all original, bandit65, nash, 400, profex 11,match-box, 7A,DD3, delay,various accoustic guitars, amps, and other necessitys,

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Lew,,, I don't know. I'm a tube amp guy now. But, many years ago I did use a rack. Yamaha power amp and some sort of effects Processor from ART and a clip-on-the-leg Goodrich polyphonic thing. Midi footcontroller. I was playin' up to 4 different instruments back then and the midi rig made some sense. Didn't need anything else. Then one day I plugged into a buddy's Twin. Sold the rack!

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

No, the Matchbox won't do it. You need a preamp.

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Depends on the gear how efficient it will be. If the power amp has a high output, the equalizer may be able to drive the volume to an acceptable level. It may also depend on whether the circuitry is of active or passive design. I would expect a parametric eq unit would suit your purpose better than one of the graphic units. But if the graphic unit has a global boost it may work somewhat. You may have to push the overall equalizer output to the max though. Most of these units have either a master boost or individual boost for each eq band, but when you tailor your curve for optimum tone your volume may suffer. If your matchbox has say a 10-20db gain boost, that would help your situation.

My experience has been that this configuration requires using most of the available power, leaving little overhead for peaks such as big handful grips on the C neck. YMMV however.

I'm currently using a Boss SE 70 to drive a MosValve 500. It works pretty good, but it can crap out a little under big SPL demands. It doesn't incorporate a preamp, but does have an amp sim. ciruit. Most of my patches require running the overall eq boost to at least + 10 db to compete in a live band situation.

Lewis John Foote · From: Dorset, UK

howdy,the equiliser, is a pearl, 9 band, with level control, must be 20 od years old,never used it before,was thinkin on the lines of dpc, 750, i do have a pro-fex11, i like the clean sound of just the delay going through my nashville, 400. if i could get the same sound out of a rack system, ide be quite happy, just gettin weight concious,? lew.
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pro1,s two round fronts, one square front, sho-bud, S12, LDG,1977, built by paul franklin sen, [THE PROFESSIONAL]nice all original, bandit65, nash, 400, profex 11,match-box, 7A,DD3, delay,various accoustic guitars, amps, and other necessitys,

Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

Lew, not to change the subject, but you mentioned the weight issue, i agree.
I went with the kidney bean line 6 pod xt, and they have gorgeous amp simulators, gorgeous reverbs etc, i havent had a sound man complain or stage volume issue in 5 years, in fact they always comment on how awsome the tone is. Even drummers have nodded Laughing

I havent carried an amp in 5 years, but man.. i miss it . Weight is about 5 lbs, wife loves it! Winking

Like anything else though you have to really spend time with it to work out all the great tones, and dialling it in. Dont exspect to go to the local shop and plug one in and be happy, that seldome works, you gotta dial them in carefully. I spent 2 weeks when i first got mine!

Plug into it, send a signal and away she goes.
And man..... they are cheap, i'll bet a couple of hundred quid back home!
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A.K.A Chappy.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Lewis, a typical rack system would include a power conditioner/distribution system, a preamp, (optionally) a multi-effects unit, a power amp and one or more speaker cabs.

The advantage is you can usually get power amps with far more headroom and volume than in a combo; the downside is finding the *right* preamp and learning how to use it for steel...and weight.

The total weight of a good rack system AND the speaker(s) is likely going to b considerably more than a combo - and the cost will be FAR higher unless you're using a vintage tube amp.

For rack equipment I suggest going to one of the major guitar stores (Guitar Center, Sam Ash, etc) to the pro audio department - NOT the guitar section - and coordinate equipment between that department and the bass section. Modern bass rigs are often adaptations of (or simply exactly the same as) full-range PA system or keyboard rack systems.

I've played steel through several rack systems; a typical setup would be a top-level Furman power conditioner (not a cheap rack power strip with lights) Alembic preamp, Crest or QSC 1000-watt+ power amp, whatever effects you prefer and a single cabinet with 2x10" bass drivers and a 5" tweeter. Sometimes you might add a 15" cabinet to the mix, but 10" bass drivers with good power amps are way more than enough to fill a hall and rattle the windows while staying perfectly clean.

It's a great way to go (so are most modern bass combos) - but the rack system is gonna be expensive! You can drop 3 grand pretty fast...but that's not more than 6-stringers pay for good boutique combo amps.
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No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Lewis John Foote · From: Dorset, UK

howdy, looks like im gonna have to split my NASH,400,its gonna cure the weight prob, my pockets arnt deep enough for the rack set up, thanks for responce and suggestions, lew.
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pro1,s two round fronts, one square front, sho-bud, S12, LDG,1977, built by paul franklin sen, [THE PROFESSIONAL]nice all original, bandit65, nash, 400, profex 11,match-box, 7A,DD3, delay,various accoustic guitars, amps, and other necessitys,

John Roche · From: England

Lew, you got a profex, that is a preamp..

Bill Ford · From: Graniteville SC Aiken

Pod XT into an ART, SLA-2 (500W)into 2 15" Peavey BW cabs. All you will ever need.

Lewis, Check your email...Bill
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Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!!

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

http://usera.ImageCave.com/prosteel/E/ss3.jpeg
Lew, a rack system doesn't have to weigh a ton or cost a fortune. The Stereo Steel http://www.stereosteel.com/index.html in this photo
incorporates a preamp and only weighs 12 or 13# I think. The sound is very much like the Session 400 and has around 300 watts ea. stereo side of power @ 4 ohms. They sound great, have steel friendly features and are simple to hook-up and use.

I think they sell new for around $800. I've seen them used here for 5-600. It doesn't have reverb, but you can use any effects you like. A stomp box DD-3 is fine if you don't require any other fx.

Of course you need satelite speaker[s], but they can be found reasonably used. One of the BW 1203's, FI is smaller and lighter in weight. With the SS, you can shut off one side and just use one speaker, of any design, 4 or 8 ohms, if you want.

I don't know if you can find any of this gear in the UK, but it's something you might keep an eye out for.

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

http://usera.ImageCave.com/prosteel/pq50-copy.jpg
Not meant to belabor the issue, but when I play [read hack] bass out, I just use the parametric unit in the photo along with my Mosvalve 500 power amp and 1 speaker cab. This 90's era PQ50 is a 4 band unit with level, Freq. and Q controls each band. It can also add up to +20db of overall boost to the bass signal so that it's hot enough to drive the power amp directly.

Many pro audio units can be used as a preamp, though not particularly marketed or labeled as such. Finding out which ones takes some experimenting and research though. If you're not into that, it may be best to go with the more commonly applied criteria.

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