Volume Pedal - Improve Tone (or not)?

Michael Stephens · From: South Hadley, MA

I know there was just a thread on volume pedals, but can you guys share w/a newer player your honest opinion about whether one pedal or another changes/improves the tone? If so, which pedals?

FYI - I'm using an old, borrowed, Sho-Bud pedal now.

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Michael, What works the best for me is my shobud guitar to my shobud pedal to my fender amp with 15" JBL D130F's. Use a little amp reverb. I've made the big circle of effects pedals and proccesors, and this is what I came back to.

Most volume pedals are pretty friendly to your tone. Some leave the old style pot pedals like you and I are using and go with the newer laser pedals. The lasers are very clear and "sterile" sounding to some players. Some come back to the old pot pedals. Some stay with the lasers. It's subjective.

The best potentiometer(pot) for your pedal is 500K, and my favorite is the old Allen Bradley pots. But you got to scrounge to find them.
Hope this helps. Cool

Ken Metcalf · From: San Antonio Texas USA

A Hilton will improve your tone as it has a good pre-amp in it, or a Goodrich Match box is a plus
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Little Walter PF-89.
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Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

Went with the hilton, i never looked back.
Have had it about 4 years now.
Electronic volume pedals do sound different to standard, so you will have to EQ it accordingly.
It's bulletproof and can stand the rigors of rain storms, i have never to had to do anything to it, it sits in my rig for 4 years now, and has not been pampered! It's exspensive, but man... its good!
No pot noise from smokey bars, and
NO BROKEN ROPE Laughing

James has a good point, [the sound can be somewhat sterile] but not enough for me to have to scrounge around for a damn good pot, which is lot of headaches,money, plus installation, time and rope.
Good point james!
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A.K.A Chappy.

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

I have played and recorded for a while now with both the Goodrich Model 120 pot pedal and the new Hilton lightweight electronic pedal with the detachable power supply cord. Both are excellent pedals and to my ears, when I switch from one to the other, I can only say that they sound different, but also that they both sound really great. The Hilton preserves the highs a bit more, but with adjustments in EQ, I can make it sound almost identical to the Goodrich. To my ear the Goodrich pedal sounds a tad warmer and the frequency response does change a bit with the position of the pedal. I happen to like that effect but of course most of my playing is done with the pedal near one position so that effect is minimal. Since the human ear's frequency response differs with sound pressure levels, it's hard to argue that it's necessarily good to have a pedal that has an even frequency response at all travel positions.

Bottom line is either pedal can produce all the highs your ears can handle, with appropriate adjustments in amp EQ and picking technique..

My Goodrich pedal has the new Dunlop conductive plastic pot and it has been dead quiet and very reliable for over a year now. Time will tell if this turns out to be good long term solution for the Goodrich pedal.

Because of the junk pots that are being used in the new Goodrich pedals, I would not recommend purchasing one unless you plan on also spending $25 more to immedialtely change the pot.

If you can afford it, buy the Hilton as your primary pedal and get a used Goodrich as a backup. For those just starting out and on a budget, get the Goodrich pot pedal, use it until you can save up for the Hilton. This investement is not wasted! Just keep the Goodrich for backup duty later on when you do get the Hilton.

Greg

Richard Damron · From: Gallatin, Tennessee, USA (deceased)

Michael -

IMHO, a volume pedal should be "transparent". That is, it should not alter the tone of the instrument in any way, shape or form. A couple of my friends have said that my Hilton is the best that they've ever used. How one could test that subjective judgement I don't know.

James Moorehead - Please visit Greg Cutshaw's site and read his in-depth dissertation on the old Allen-Bradley pots versus the new Dunlop pot which he is now using. Very informative.

Respectfully,

Richard

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Not using a volume pedal will improve your tone.
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Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

Not according to the neighbours! Laughing

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Gabriel Stutz · From: Chicago, USA

Richard,

To test the effect of a VP on your tone, just plug your guitar directly into an amp, that's your pure steel sound, then into the pedal and listen again. There is very little difference with the Hilton. I noticed quite a bit of difference with the pot pedals I used to use. I too prefer a transparent (or as close as possible) volume pedal.

Gabriel

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

A volume pedal is a volume pedal. They're made to regulate your volume, and that's it. If you're looking for "tone magic", you can't buy it. People talk all the time on here about how pots "ruin your tone", and most of it's bullhockey. Let me ask you a rhetorical question, something you don't have to be Einstein to figure it out...

How many electric straight guitars have you seen that didn't have volume pots in them?

Um hmm, that's what I thought.

Case closed. Everything else is "hype".

Cool

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Richard Damron · From: Gallatin, Tennessee, USA (deceased)

Gabriel -

I don't want to get nit-pickey but I simply don't trust uncalibrated ears since they don't tell me how much of a deviation there might be. Just thought of a way to do the testing but I no longer have the test equipment.

Oh, well - back to the ears, I guess.

Respectfully

Richard

Gabriel Stutz · From: Chicago, USA

I think there is some difference between the steel and volume pedal and a guitar with a volume pot based on how they are normally used. Guitar volume pots spend a lot more time wide open than a volume pedal, which minimizes the loss of highs that comes when you roll off (the loss of highs when you turn down can be beneficial on a guitar sometimes). A volume pedal for a steel spends most of it's time in the middle somewhere so that the loss of highs has already begun at the average playing volume. It is true that guitar pots have the same lack of transparency that a pot pedal does when you start rolling it off.

I'm not saying that the Hilton created any "tone magic" exactly, I'm saying that the Hilton let the inherent tone of my steel make it all the way to the amp, and the pot pedal effected my tone before it got to the amp. As, I said, I just want as much transparency between my steel and amp as I can get.

Gabriel

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

What b0b said.

It'll improve your tone, your right-hand control and overall picking technique to NOT use one.

Of course, if you play "normal" steel it's not "normal" to not use one.

But depending on what style you play or how YOU want to sound (within that style - forget how you THINK you should sound to "fit in" and think instead about what works with your style and abilities) they are not an absolute necessity, and I think it would serve most players well to play every once in a while without one. You might find some nice picking effects - or that your right-hand is a total trainwreck and the volume pedal is a crutch.

Sort of the steel player's version of the "capo".

Errr - to SOME people!

Devil

_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Well I'll go out on a limb and pretend you didn't use the "T Word".

These guys turn into a pack of (albeit talented) jackals when discussing "Tone".

Can a volume PEDAL change it?

Yes.

Do most of them?

Yes. Especially those that use pots.

Most of them degrade it.

The Ernie Ball I used for 25 years and ran a half dozen pots through cut about 20 percent of my signal and degraded the EQ accordingly when I FINALLY got out of my nest and actually tested it full out against a straight cord to my amp. The Hilton I tested was 100% and had no negative effect on the EQ that my bandstand beaten ears could discern..

I have NEVER used the Pot Pedal since I got my Hilton, and it's never missed a stroke in about the last thousand gigs.

The Hilton does have a pre-amp in it that, to most of us jackals, brings it up at full on to where it should be, and doesn't seem to change the timbre, or the EQ down from full volume.

To this jackal, the Hilton at Full On is the closest match I could find to no change from a straight into the amp signal.

YMMV.

Jackals on the Internet are Farther away than they appear. Most of the time.

Smile

EJL

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Jim,

You're getting pretty gutsy mentioning that "capo" word. Very Happy

Michael Stephens · From: South Hadley, MA

Wow! I had no idea what I was unleashing, but this has been very helpful.

Michael

Mike Christensen · From: Cook Minnesota

Just to be different. I have traded my Hilton for a very much like new,still with the factory box,Sho-Bud pedal and will not likely be going back to a Hilton. I have a Goodrich L-120 for backup and I like it equally as much. Just me.Happy Trails, Mike C.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Richard - couldn't resist, since realistically if a steel player forgot his volume pedal at a gig you'd see the same "deer in the headlights" look as you'd see in a bluegrass flatpicker opening his case on stage...and finding his capo was left home!

Shocked

FWIW I have an old BMI pot pedal and a 60's Fender pot pedal - the Fender is more comfortable when standing (it feels weird for steel), so I use it with 6-string; I use the BMI with steel, but hardly even touch it. Every once in a while when I want a "crying" sound I'll use it, but 99.5% of the time I vary the volume and attack with my right hand...and I don't use the sustained-note "gas pedal" steel technique most normal steelers do, because I'm playing a different style.

Also, I have had that Fender for almost its entire life, and the pot is original; periodic treatment with cleaner/lubricant and ALWAYS leaving it sitting in a full-up or full-down position (critical with pot pedals - otherwise you build up carbon deposits and that's when pops and crackling noises often come from) and it's dead-quiet (as is the Beck). With my style a $200+ volume pedal would be a silly purchase...and it'd do me absolutely no good having a preamp in the pedal except maybe with my GFI - but my Steeldriver II works fine for using that one with tube amps.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Lynn Oliver · From: Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.

I bought a used Goodrich L-120 off the For Sale forum here, and when it arrived it turned out to be an H10K instead. One of my guitars comes to life when plugged into the H10K, so apparently it likes the higher impedance of a buffered input.

It seems that at least in some cases the type of pedal does make a difference.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

It just depends,,,,, This happened to me twice, in two different studios. "JB, nice job but there's a little bit of buzz I'd like to eliminate." The buzz was traced to my Goodrich light-beam pedal. Turned over the plug. Still buzz. Pulled out my old Goodrich pot pedal. "JB. That did it! No more buzz. And, BTW, your guitar sounds much better with that old pedal."
So,,,, It just depends.

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

Tone is secondary to which pedal draws the most women. Bill Myrick of Pea Ridge, Arkansas claims he has to be careful when using the Hilton pedal, because of all the women who gather around. Of course, Donny, that causes real problems with the wife.

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Here's a way to "look at it".

I KNOW it's NOT accurate, but to me it is a way to understand it.

A potentiometer is like a nozzle on a hose to cut the water flow.

I liken what happens in a pot as some garden hose nozzles. The stream goes from full out, cohesive, and straight to less well defined, spread out, and at last just a mist.

I want the kind of volume control where the cohesion or "stream" stays the same shape from full out, til "cut off".

The Hilton, from what I notice seems to keep the "stream" more uniform and cohesive as you cut the volume.

I know it's not a perfect analogy, but it is something that each individual can test, and look for.

I sure found that the Hilton was like night and day compared to the Ernie Ball, and the AB Type EJ/Extra Life 500 and 250k pots I'd used for decades. It only took pluggin one in and playing through it for 5 minutes.

I've never looked back.

Smile

EJL

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

Eric, have you noticed your love life improving once you started using the Hilton Pedal? Some guys have told me their love life took a dramatic turn for the better once they plugged into the Hilton Pedal.

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