Guitar Players Who Sound Like Pedal Steel Players

Doc Rickles · Post by **Doc Rickles** » 14 Oct 2008 9:24 am

There was a guy in the middle 60's that played at a club in Biloxi, Miss. Cash Cotton's Club the "Red Dog Saloon", right off the beach. He played an early Tele with a Bigsby no benders. He played licks and crechendos that sounded exactly like a pedal steel.His name was Les Howard and was stationed in the Air Force there.
He was absolutely meticulous at even Emmons licks.
He just loved to play and was fantastic.
Anyone else ever hear him?
Doc

Dave Harmonson · Post by **Dave Harmonson** » 14 Oct 2008 10:06 am

"Mr. Customs Man" real title "Coming Into Los Angeles". Yep that's Clarence on B bender and James Burton playing a round neck dobro. One of my fave's as well.
I think maybe my favorite Clarence track is from The Byrds Ballad Of Easy Rider album "Tulsa County Blue". It still knocks me out.

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 14 Oct 2008 12:13 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOfEPFzIBE0

Listen to Waddy playing his Les Paul with Bigsby and volume pedal on Rider in the Rain from Randy Newman's Little Criminals album from 1977. He has a great touch.

Russ

Steve Norman · Post by **Steve Norman** » 14 Oct 2008 12:46 pm

Dave Harmonson plays a mean b-bender, I heard it!

Dave Harmonson · Post by **Dave Harmonson** » 14 Oct 2008 5:21 pm

Thanks Steve. My Mama taught me not to be mean, but I guess I didn't always listen.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 15 Oct 2008 5:07 am

One of the best...and worst...examples of steel with b-bender is a bootleg that's been around for years that finally showed up a year or so ago in a soundboard version that's recorded really well. It's a Burritos show from '69 a the Palomino, and Clarence is sitting in.

He and Sneaky play together so well it's almost uncanny - Clarence obviously had jammed with them enough or had tapes of some of the more obscure songs like "The Train Song" as he knows the hooks, and he and Pete do harmonies (which works well with Pete's single-string playing) and little counterpoint things that are really fun to hear, especially with headphones. Clarence never sounds like he's faking steel the entire night - so it's a good example of how to play b-bender and NOT sound like a lame steel imitator.

The only bad part is really Gram, who sounds pretty hammered and plays some pretty idiotic rhythm stuff between songs...and DURING songs. Overall it's a tremendous one to hear, and a must-have for b-bender players and country-rock steelers.

Stu Schulman · Post by **Stu Schulman** » 15 Oct 2008 8:15 am

Dave H..Tulsa county Blue is my all time favorite,Stu

Dave Harmonson · Post by **Dave Harmonson** » 15 Oct 2008 11:52 am

Stu, have you heard the CD release of Ballad Of Easy Rider? There are a few bonus tracks, and one of Tulsa County Blue with John York singing lead and an extra verse with no fiddle. Clarence's guitar sounds exactly the same except for the extra verse. Sounds like they edited it down from the same take and had Roger McGuinn sing it for the original released version.
Another little side note on B benders, your old friend Chris Middaugh got a Parsons/White bender about the same time as I did as well as another player from Tacoma, Ray Murphy. Ray was from New York and had moved over here in the mid 70's. I didn't know Chris that well at the time and had never met Ray and our benders were numbered 29, 30 and 31. It was quite a coincidence that we all got them at the same time from within about a 40 mile radius. That was Oct. '76

Joel Meredith · Post by **Joel Meredith** » 15 Oct 2008 12:14 pm

One of the best...and worst...examples of steel with b-bender is a bootleg that's been around for years that finally showed up a year or so ago in a soundboard version that's recorded really well. It's a Burritos show from '69 a the Palomino, and Clarence is sitting in.

Man, I'd love to hear that! Where did you find that recording, Jim?

Jim Simon · Post by **Jim Simon** » 15 Oct 2008 12:40 pm

I used to hang out at Webb's Music in Antioch, CA in the 70's & 80's. The owner Jim was a good friend. We in the steel community know of him due to the "Webb Steel Guitar Amp". Jimmy had a teacher at the store, Larry Murphy. Larry was also involved in the developement of the amp. This guy played a hollow body Gibson with some home made palm pedals. Very talented guy. I went to hear him play at a club one nite. As I walked through the parking lot I heard a pedal steel and was so excited to see who it was. It was Larry on his 345. Amazing guy. Both Jimmy and Larry have passed. Both contributed so much to music.

Glen Derksen · Post by **Glen Derksen** » 15 Oct 2008 7:37 pm

Has anybody heard of of a group called Nashville West? Clarence White was in that group before he joined the Byrds. They played a recorded gig at the Nashville West club (they were the house band) in Los Angeles in 1967, and in 1978, an album was released. Clarence displayed some killer chops on that album.

Also, check out The Byrds Live At The Fillmore - February 1969. That concert wasn't released until 2000. Features a lot of monster playing by Clarence.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 15 Oct 2008 10:14 pm

Yeah, I remember NVW well. It was Clarence, Gib Guilbeau on fiddle, Wayne Moore on bass, and Gene Parsons on drums. Probably around 1966-67. I think Stan Pratt played drums after Clarence and Gene left the band. I'm sure Clarence was with the Byrds in 1968 because when I was on Ronstadt's band we did a show with them in Berkeley and the Byrds were Roger, Skip Battyn, Clarence, Kevin Kelley on drums. Sadly, Clarence, Skip, and Kevin are all now gone.

Wayne and Gib also played at the legendary/infamous Jack O' Diamonds in Palmdale later on with Dennis Morris... this would be around 1969.

My memory is dim, but after the Corvettes left Ronstadt to eventually become the Eagles, Gib and Stan added John Beland and left the Jack O' Diamonds to become Linda's backup band. They eventually became "Swampwater," and also worked with Mac Davis with Thad Maxwell on steel. This was summer of 1970. Then Murphey, Boomer, and I (with Stoney Bramith on drums) went into the Jack and stayed for a few weeks as house band.

After Murphey left the band to eventually move back to TX in late 1970, Boomer, Stoney and I went back into the Jack, added Wayne Moore back on bass and Garland Frady on rhythm guitar and lead vocals in January 1971. Then the earthquake hit in Feb. 1971, the highway to Palmdale was closed, and everything went to hell.

Jason Odd should really chime in here, because he knows ALL THIS STUFF exactly. My timeline is prob'ly a little off. I think I'll contact Oddy for a clarification.

I still occasionally stay in touch with Gene, Gib, and Wayne after all these years. Wow.

Michael McNeill · Post by **Michael McNeill** » 16 Oct 2008 2:40 am

Forrest Lee Jr. does it all!

This guy has a scary understanding of what goes on when you pull on ten neck and bend that string. He has free lesson videos on "U-Tube". He makes B-bender Tele's at a reasonable price. The Benders are his design, I believe he makes G-Benders as well. I have seen him post stuff on this FORUM. His website is OUTWESTRECORDS.com. You will never talk to a nicer guy. Check out Forrest Lee Jr.

Enjoy,

Mike

Don Drummer · Post by **Don Drummer** » 16 Oct 2008 3:53 am

The first time i heard a recording of jazz guitarist Pat Martino I thought he was trying to sound like The Big E. Further education on the subject via the SGF got me straightened around. Don D.

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 16 Oct 2008 5:14 am

Not trying to burst anyones bubble here but in my opinion only, I don't want a guitar player pickin' with me that's constantly playing steel licks, trying to sound like a PSG. If there's not a steel in the band then it's fine but it rubs me the wrong way when they constantly do it. I don't try to play lead guitar on steel and don't want someone standing next to me playing steel licks on guitar. That's about as aggravating as someone playing on top of a lead instrument when there taking a break on something. Been there, had that done, don't like it.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 16 Oct 2008 5:52 am

Billy, that's what some of us who are longtime b-benders are saying - we don't TRY to sound like a steel at all. It's a totally different style of playing.

the Byrds were Roger, Skip Battyn, Clarence, Kevin Kelley on drums.

Herb, that's not possible, sorry. Skip didn't come in until John York left....who took Chris Hillman's place, and Kevin Kelly was Chris's cousin. Hillman played a few shows with Clarence before leaving to join Gram Parsons and form the Flying Burrito Brothers, but Kevin Kelly was already gone and Gene Parsons brought in at the same time as Clarence, at Clarence's behest. The early Clarence lineup in 1968 would have been McGuinn, White, Hillman and Parsons; a month or two later (after Hillman throwing his bass in disgust...although it's never really been explained what he was disgusted about at that point) Hillman quit and John York (who had been considered for the slot Gram got) joined. York was in the band a little over a year, with Battin hired in late '69...

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 16 Oct 2008 6:17 am

Whatever... I said the memory was dim. It WAS 40 years ago, and things get mushy. But it was Kevin on drums at the Berkeley Community Auditorium show we did in 68. Other than that, I plead the 5th.

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 16 Oct 2008 6:21 am

Back in the sixties, I'm not sure of the exact year, Wayne Kemp was playing with Buddy Cagle at George's Roundup in Long Beach, Anyway, on Sunday afternoons Wayne did a jam and show at a club in Wilmington called "The Sundown". I was right down the street at a dive called "The Lelani Club" and I'd go down on break times to catch Wayne's show as he had this guitarist named Sammy Watson who played the greatest steel licks I'd ever heard. Sammy had a Telecaster with a Bigsby vibrato on it and used a Bigsby foot volume/tone control. Sammy played steel also I later found out but he didn't for that gig. Do any of you old SoCal boys out there remember Sammy? I've often wondered whatever happened to him.......

Also, I have a video tape of an old Austin City Limits show featuring Roger Miller. Roger had a pretty good swing band for the show and he was playing a nice swing Texas style fiddle on it. He didn't have a steel player but Danny Gatton was on lead guitar and some of the things he was playing sounded exactly like a steel guitar. He was a master of a bunch of styles and that was one of 'em.

Also in the sixties I knew a guitar player who was working at Leonard's Chit Chat Club (a real blood bucket) in Bell Gardens, Ca. named Roy Hunt who did some pretty good steel things on a Stratocaster. He didn't use a volume pedal but used that top (always in the way) volume control on the guitar in it's place.........JH in Va.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 16 Oct 2008 6:48 am

I don't want a guitar player pickin' with me that's constantly playing steel licks, trying to sound like a PSG. If there's not a steel in the band then it's fine but it rubs me the wrong way when they constantly do it. I don't try to play lead guitar on steel and don't want someone standing next to me playing steel licks on guitar.

I agree.

Steve Norman · Post by **Steve Norman** » 16 Oct 2008 7:12 am

Billy Carr wrote:Not trying to burst anyones bubble here but in my opinion only, I don't want a guitar player pickin' with me that's constantly playing steel licks, trying to sound like a PSG. If there's not a steel in the band then it's fine but it rubs me the wrong way when they constantly do it. I don't try to play lead guitar on steel and don't want someone standing next to me playing steel licks on guitar. That's about as aggravating as someone playing on top of a lead instrument when there taking a break on something. Been there, had that done, don't like it.

Amen Brother,,

I only like it when there is not a steel in the band as well.

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 16 Oct 2008 7:25 am

guys who play with string-benders and think they're playing like a steel guitarist have to be some of the most charmingly self-deluded musicians I've run across

Indeed.

As a guitarist, if there's anything I've copped from pedal steel, it's the chord voicings.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 16 Oct 2008 7:57 am

Russ Tkac wrote:Listen to Waddy playing his Les Paul with Bigsby and volume pedal on Rider in the Rain from Randy Newman's Little Criminals album from 1977. He has a great touch.

Well, opinions are like...whatever. But that's still a pretty far cry from good steel work, IMHO. I can't see how a steeler would get excited about that. A lead player...maybe. However, I can tell you it could have been far better had he stayed off the stupid volume pedal.

Wheeeooo, wheeee--- ooo, whee---whee----oooo

Does anyone but a brand new steel student play like that?

Ron ! · Post by **Ron !** » 16 Oct 2008 8:01 am

Wheeeooo, wheeee--- ooo, whee---whee----oooo

Heck Donny.....I think you sound even better then that one.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 16 Oct 2008 8:46 am

Glen Derksen wrote:Has anybody heard of of a group called Nashville West? Clarence White was in that group before he joined the Byrds. They played a recorded gig at the Nashville West club (they were the house band) in Los Angeles in 1967, and in 1978, an album was released. Clarence displayed some killer chops on that album.

That's true; however, Clarence didn't yet have the B-bender then.

The Live at the Fillmore album has a lot of great playing by Clarence, but to me it also illustrates the pitfall of bender use: I'm a big fan of his, but even Clarence was sometimes guilty of over-using the bender, IMHO. Live, anyway--I can't think of any studio examples.

scott murray · Post by **scott murray** » 16 Oct 2008 10:25 am

Jim Sliff wrote: And again, like Dave, I hear no tonal change, have read Burton talking about playing it (yes, it IS more than one take spliced together but not unplayable - splicing together pieces of different solo takes is very common) and haven't heard anything about Al taking claim for it. If Al says it's him I wouldn't doubt him, but I don't hear it - and if it's steel playing, it doesn't sound like *Al's* steel playing of that era.

it's funny that you guys don't know a pedal steel when you hear one. Yes, the solo is "guitar-esque" with a lot of single notes, but there are also a few bends that are clearly done with pedals... not to mention hammer-ons with the bar.

There is no change in tone because that's Al's playing through the entire song starting at 12 seconds in.

James plays the intro and everything else in a higher register.

When I complimented Al on this break he was surprised that I knew it was him, so I guess it's a common mistake people make assuming it was Burton. It's possible that James was taking credit for the Emmylou version. But it is most certainly Al on the Gram Parsons album.

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