Send the guitar or the money.

Roger Shackelton · Post by **Roger Shackelton** » 7 Oct 2008 3:24 pm

My Good Buddy, BILL RUDOLPH, at The Williams Guitar Co. has been a one man operation for many years. His son TIM has been helping Bill for a bit over a year or so. Bill has had a very stable delivery time over the years.

I ordered a guitar from the WILLIAMS CO. in mid December 2007 and he gave me a delivery date, somewhere between May 15th to May 30th 2008. I received my guitar on May 27th 2008.

No complaints what-so-ever.

ROGER

Jeff Hyman · Post by **Jeff Hyman** » 7 Oct 2008 5:18 pm

I was thinking a lawyer might take the case for a percentage.

It would be a very desperate Attorney to take this on a percentage :-) Maybe a retainer, then a letter or two would go out, and the cost to Client/victim climbs... and no guarantees you'll win. Biggest problem is the victim is in another state, long distance calls, travel, etc... and a settlement probably wouldn't get those costs back. Best money spent on an Attorney is prior to a problem. I stick to my previous post.

I must say, this is a very interesting thread with a wide range of approaches. I think it's important to remember that there are still good PSG manufacturers out there. I hope they don't become victims themselves by what is going on with Emmons, and I hope players still continue to support these manufactures, and the manufacturers learn from this thread as well.

Bill Dobkins · Post by **Bill Dobkins** » 7 Oct 2008 6:19 pm

Charles,I feel sorry for you. What a delima you have to deal with. But beware my friend,about shedding light on steel companies. When I did so I lost a lot of respect from my forum brother's as well as some friends. Although in the process I made more friends than I lost.From what I'm told by some of these friends the Emmons people would rather play the rich mans game than produce a product. I had thought about buying an Emmons but after hearing so many complaints I decided not to.
Why can't we register complaints about companies without being treated as poop disturbers.

Larry Bressington · Post by **Larry Bressington** » 7 Oct 2008 7:15 pm

Who cares what those people think, The truth has to be spoken, Shedding light on bad buissness practices is protecting our forum brothers from getting into the same predicament, never worry about upsetting people when you have a legitimate reason to speak out.

If those people lost respect for you bill for being 'Truthful and Up front' then 'piss on em ' they arent real freinds of yours!
You just found a new freind bill.
Just my opinion, which is usually wrong!!

Jeff Hyman · Post by **Jeff Hyman** » 7 Oct 2008 7:20 pm

Bill,

When someone is p*&$ing down your back and telling you its raining, one needs to stand up and do what needs to be done. Also... where is Emmons in all this? They should post a reply and defend themselves. Until we hear from Emmons we only know one side of the story. No response from Emmons simply endorses Charlies claim.

Ben Hoare · Post by **Ben Hoare** » 7 Oct 2008 7:24 pm

This is dissapointing to hear I nearly ordered an LG III about a year ago because I wanted a Franklin but had heard about the wait time so opted for another builder.Luckily a near new Franklin D10 came up for sale in my city and really cheap so I got what I initially wanted anyway.In my contact with Emmons they seemed really nice so Id like to know there side also.Just goes to show with so many great steel builders around these days like Rains,Mullen,Zum etc noone can rest on there laurels or name,the steel community is a small one relatively speaking.Sorry to hear of your story Charles, the wait must be painful.I hope this story has a happier ending for all parties conserned

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 7 Oct 2008 7:43 pm

Sorry don’t help much but I’ll say it anyway.

I don’t have a dog in this fight but I remember a SG company that went bankrupt many years back.

My father gave me the money to send to that company and when I tried to put in the order they told me they couldn’t take my order because they were back logged to far. A couple months later they were out of business and I will always be thankful they didn’t ask me to send the money and take my order.

When they told me they couldn’t get to my order because they had too many it was not a lie.

It doesn’t make sense when a company goes out of business when it’s booming with orders to the point they can’t get to them all.

But all the PSG companies seem to have more orders than they can get to, so how can you tell if one is going belly up.

Steel Guitar Companies are founded on a labor of love. Unfortunately love don’t pay the bills. No sane person would consider a PSG company a money making deal.

Based on today’s economy it is cause for concern.

After that and this incident the only way I’ll buy new Steel is to leave a small deposit that’s not going to hurt me if I lose, for the build and then I’ll drive to the factory and pay the balance with one hand on the Steel and then carry it out to my vehicle.

I will not be left to depend on an email telling me it’s ready to ship so send the balance and hope I get a PSG and not a bankrupt notice.

Just be thankful you were not waiting on a heart or a lung.

Richard Argus · Post by **Richard Argus** » 7 Oct 2008 8:54 pm

I have been reading Charlie's posts for some time, and sensing his frustrations.

I ordered a LGIII from Ron in February 06, and was nervous about it at the time, because of the excessively long deliveries (overdue)that have been the subject of several threads through the years.

However, I already have 2 pp's, love the Emmons sound, and believed that the LGIII is in the upper echelon of available guitars. So based on personal experiences, and with support from George Xanthos, placed the order.

Further, I have had regular contact with them in recent years buying bit & pieces and knee lever kits etc. I have found that most of the time I could always get an prompt response (occasionally having to wait), yet I am in the southern hemisphere. They also have usually had the pp bits and pieces.

I had several discussions with Bobbe and Ron before ordering, and placed a small deposit (guitar ordered through George X).

The quoted around 24 - 28 weeks delivery. I wanted it for my birthday (early September); they said no promises but would try.

We had frequent contact throughout the build, and I always got a response (sometimes took a few days).

It was completed 20th September (photos received), and I had it here in the middle of the outback two weeks later.

It is a beautiful instrument and has met all of my expectations.

Luke also had a very long wait (overdue), and I followed his postings being thankful that it didn't happen to me!

Anyway, my experiences with Emmons Guitar Co have been satisfactory, and I am on the other side of the world. Maybe I have been lucky.

Charlie, I hope it all works out without much more trauma.

Richard

Roger Haugejorden · Post by **Roger Haugejorden** » 7 Oct 2008 9:50 pm

Hi, I just received my new Williams U-12 on time. I have just started playing PSG. Thanks to Bill. Great job, Good service.

Bill Lowe · Post by **Bill Lowe** » 7 Oct 2008 11:44 pm

I just received my D10 hybrid lacuer Zum from Bruce 1 month early. Always picked up the telephone evertime I called.Great guy. I'll postsome pics on another topic. If you get your money back I have a 2008 black emmons SD10 4&6 that is like new I am going to sell very soon. I feel sorry for the situation you are in and hope this clears up for you and you end up with the guitar you want. Bill

Ernie Pollock · Post by **Ernie Pollock** » 8 Oct 2008 4:12 am

I remember back in the 90's, I bought a used guitar from a builder in Tn, At the time of purchase, I put a deposit on a used Emmons, that was supposed to have been converted to an 'all pull' system, I think the deposit was two or three hundred dollars. In the mean time, after not a word from the company, I called, only to find out that the first guy had sold the company, and the guy who bought it gave me a big song & dance about how he would honor that order?? that never happened. I just lost that money. One of those guys is building guitars again, but I know better than to send him a deposit!!

Life lessons are sometimes hard learned!!

Ernie

Tamara James · Post by **Tamara James** » 8 Oct 2008 5:32 am

Bo Legg wrote:.

I’ll drive to the factory and pay the balance with one hand on the Steel and then carry it out to my vehicle.

this thread and others is why I am so grateful to have access to so much information. I am just a "little person" in the steel world. I weighed the options very carefully and opted to buy a steel I could put one hand on as I wrote the check. It's a great PSG for me and I am happy.

It does break my heart when folks have trouble with companies. I remember when a "gentleman's word and a handshake" was as binding as a written contract, but that time has seemed to pass. This type of thing drives a wedge in the "family" and that makes me very sad. Let us not forget that there are some responsible business folks out there.

Charles Dempsey · Post by **Charles Dempsey** » 8 Oct 2008 6:17 am

I have a tracking number. It is a miracle!

________________________________________________________________________________

This tracking update has been requested by:

Company Name: Emmons Guitar Co. by Lashley
Name: Rebecca Lashley
E-mail: r_lashley@bellsouth.net

________________________________________________________________________________

Rebecca Lashley of Emmons Guitar Co. by Lashley sent Mr. Charles Dempsey of Mr. Charles Dempsey 1 FedEx Home Delivery package(s).

This shipment is scheduled to be sent on 10/07/2008.

Reference information includes:

Reference: Serial # 2387L

Tracking number: 515395110000086

To track the latest status of your shipment, click on the tracking number above,
or visit us at fedex.com.

To learn more about FedEx Ground, please visit our website at fedex.com.

This tracking update has been sent to you by FedEx on the behalf of the
Requestor noted above. FedEx does not validate the authenticity of the
requestor and does not validate, guarantee or warrant the authenticity of the
request, the requestor's message, or the accuracy of this tracking update. For
tracking results and fedex.com's terms of use, go to fedex.com.

Thank you for your business.

Ga McDonnell · Post by **Ga McDonnell** » 8 Oct 2008 6:18 am

The only brand new guitar I've owned came with the same extended delivery date and with all the unfulfilled promises. And the lacquer was underapplied and looked like ten years of fading.

If I ever order another new guitar there are some clauses I will add to the contract. These are from my daughter who is an attorney. If the builder won't accept them, then I'll be walking.

In the case of builders like Carter, MSA and some others this wouldn't be a problem, because they're already being operated like a real business with a system and accountability.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 8 Oct 2008 6:24 am

I read a lot of comments here about pitted endplates. Wouldn't that happen only if the endplates were cast instead of machined? Clue me in, please.

Dennis Saydak · Post by **Dennis Saydak** » 8 Oct 2008 6:30 am

Sorry to hear about your fiasco with Emmons. Hopefully it will be resolved soon.

I guess I have to consider myself very fortunate to have recently dealt with Bill Rudolph and the Williams Guitar Company. My new Willy was actually delivered a few weeks earlier than originally expected and the wait time was very acceptable. Bill was absolutely great to deal with and the quality of his product is exceptional to say the least. All in all, I'm a very happy camper.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 8 Oct 2008 8:47 am

It is very common in the steel world to have your own order "pushed back" to expedite one from a high-profile player.

If you want the latest custom whoopie-wow axe, be prepared to wait, and then wait some more. One year? Two years??? Believe me, I've heard them all, and there ain't nothing in the steel world worth waitin' two years for.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 8 Oct 2008 10:33 am

I agree with Donny. No guitar is worth waiting 2 or more years for. I wouldn't wait more than 6 months, and that would be for these "name brands" that everyone is waiting 2 to 5 years to get. There are too many equally good guitars being made now that have reasonable (under 6 months) delivery times.

I have purchased 5 new guitars from the manufacturers over my 37 years of playing. Every one was delivered on time or early.
2 - ZB's Both on time
1 Kline - Early
1 CArter - On time (less than 30 days and it was a non-standard guitar. A standard 8 & 5 mica guitar is what they promised 30 day delivery on at the time - '99)
1 Williams Early (2 month delivery time, came a week early.

Based on the complaints I have read on here over the years after Ron Sr. died, I wouldn't buy a toothpick directly from Emmons.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 8 Oct 2008 10:34 am

I have bought a couple of NEW guitars over the years,[lots of used ones] The NEW ones were on the sales room floor.I don't have the patience to wait six to eight teen months for ANYTHING,It seems there is enough great used guitars for sale,here on the forum and elsewhere,that are in mint cond.or close.Would'nt wait a year or longer for ANY guitar.DYKBC.

Roger Shackelton · Post by **Roger Shackelton** » 8 Oct 2008 11:19 am

Perhaps Bill Gates or Paul Allen could buy out the present owners of the Emmons Co. and install a "CAN DO CREW" at The Emmons Guitar Co. ?????

ROGER

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 8 Oct 2008 11:23 am

Hope Bill doesn't mind, but .... Bill Rudolph of Williams guitars delivered my guitar on time even though it was an 8 x 8 keyless and he had to overcome serious undercarriage space limitations/obstacles to make it happen. He has got to be one of the most honest and hard working instrument builders on this planet. His verbal committments really mean something and I would have no concerns about ordering another Williams guitar sight unseen with just a delivery date in hand.

Greg

Charles Curtis · Post by **Charles Curtis** » 8 Oct 2008 12:47 pm

Charles, please let us know how you like the guitar after you play it a while. I am certainly not a "high profile" player but I have always gotten excellent service from Emmons; IMO, great folks. If I could get away from here, I'd go down just to say hello; however my wife needs me here constantly. I can understand how a guitar could get knocked off one of the tables, but I have also seen Ron Jr. do his magic and I wouldn't hesitate to order one if the need ever comes. IMO, the Lashleys are wonderful gentle people that work very hard.

Mike Vallandigham · Post by **Mike Vallandigham** » 8 Oct 2008 12:54 pm

I've ordered P/P parts from Emmons twice, and have received prompt telephone answering, order taking and shipment both times. That said, I'd think twice about ordering a guitar, cause it's sooo skeeery!! Sorry about your long wait, but that baby looks like it's inthe mail!! whoooo!

Pictures when you get it!

Larry Scott · Post by **Larry Scott** » 8 Oct 2008 3:06 pm

Roger Shackelton wrote:My Good Buddy, BILL RUDOLPH, at The Williams Guitar Co. has been a one man operation for many years. His son TIM has been helping Bill for a bit over a year or so. Bill has had a very stable delivery time over the years.

I ordered a guitar from the WILLIAMS CO. in mid December 2007 and he gave me a delivery date, somewhere between May 15th to May 30th 2008. I received my guitar on May 27th 2008.

No complaints what-so-ever.

ROGER

A BIG DITTO THERE MY FRIEND

Larry Bressington · Post by **Larry Bressington** » 8 Oct 2008 3:43 pm

Why does everybody want a brand new steel, they dont sound any better? [Whoops, those are fightin words] Just like guns, there are pheonominal Used steels out there, that sound and play and look kiiiiiiiller!
Its hard to wear out a steel, and 20 years of clearances isent that much!
This is not directed at charles, i just had to ask!

Just my opinion, which is usually wrong!

The Steel Guitar Forum

Send the guitar or the money.

Williams Guitar Co.

on time

Not just Emmons!!

Emmons Buy Out????

Re: Williams Guitar Co.