Send the guitar or the money.

[Charles Dempsey]

In March 2007 I ordered a new SD-10 from Emmons and paid them $303.00 (10%) deposit. Rebecca promised my guitar would be delivered in 34 to 36 weeks. This put the due date in mid Sept or Oct '07, I forget which, but it was just before our gig at the Red River Revel, so I was psyched about having my new guitar for that gig.

The date came and went with no contact from Emmons. I tried to call and nobody was home. I e-mailed and got no reply.

It was February of 2008 before I managed to get in touch with Emmons again, and Rebecca told me it was going to be another 10 weeks. That 10 weeks came and went with no guitar.

In July I got in touch with them and my guitar was almost ready to ship, they were making cases. I checked the forum and Gary Preston said he was going to pick his up on July 17. Then the problems started.

First I got a call and Rebecca said she'd knocked my guitar off the table and broke the body. Next the end plates that came in were pitted and had to be sent out to be re-machined, but they were working night and day and were going to ship my guitar to me before they went to St Louis. I didn't want to hold up shipment a single minute, so I sent my final payment of $2799.70. That check cleared on August 19. No guitar was shipped to me.

When I again got in touch with Rebecca she said she thought the guitar had been shipped, but Ron held it to put new end plates on it (again?), but she said it was going to be shipped Monday Sept 29 and she'd e-mail with the tracking number. It's October 6 and here I sit with no guitar and no tracking number. Wednesday it will be 83 weeks since I ordered the guitar. Here's the e-mail I sent to Rebecca.

You promised me a guitar in 34 to 36 weeks. It was due to be delivered in late September of 2007.

I have paid as follows:

Deposit. Check #9567 to Emmons $303.00 cleared March 5, 2007

Balance. Check #9738 to Emmons $2,799.70 cleared August 19, 2008

My guitar is over a year late.

Why did you deliver Gary Preston's guitar in 46 weeks when I'm looking at 82 weeks. Almost twice Gary's wait!

Rebecca, I've had it up to here with excuses and bad promises.

So far you have;

1. Been waiting on a supplier to deliver end plates.
2. The guitar was ready but you knocked it off and broke the body.
3. The end plates were pitted and the guitar was disassembled and the plates were sent out for machining (?).
4. You thought the guitar was already shipped, but it was held for new end plates and it had to be disassembled (again?).

I have been completely up front with you. Either ship the guitar or refund my money.

I want a tracking number tomorrow, or I want a _*GOOD*_ check for $3102.70. If I have neither by Friday October 3 at 5:00 PM CDT I will be in touch with my attorney at 8:00 AM the following Monday.

At this point I would rather have my money back. Don't send me any more excuses.

Very Truly Yours,
Charles

I've got my tail in a crack financially. I might have to sell my push/pull to stay above water, and I'm so completely and utterly disgusted with this whole situation that I'm not interested in playing. The thing that really ticks me off is that I wanted a Zum, but didn't want to wait 2 years for it!

Charlie

[Pat Comeau]

1. Been waiting on a supplier to deliver end plates.
2. The guitar was ready but you knocked it off and broke the body.
3. The end plates were pitted and the guitar was disassembled and the plates were sent out for machining (?).
4. You thought the guitar was already shipped, but it was held for new end plates and it had to be disassembled (again?).

One would think that a big name like "EMMONS" would have alot of end plates in stock.

Something doesn't sound right with their excuses.

I feel sorry for you my friend and hope this get resolve soon for you.

[Larry Bressington]

Wow! I Think a lot of these steel manufacturers and repair men take on the work, but unless you are a very well known player, you keep getting shuffled to the back, [ in an innocent way] I had this problem, with a shop in Nashville, which i prefer not to mention!
Sorry to hear about that, my freind, but i know exactly what you mean! Its a shame that this buissness does not run a first come first serve basis, [ they say it does] but rest assure there is a lot of wink, nodd,
[i'll squeeze you in ] going on in this buissness too!:?
I dont want to come off as a pesimist, but i have seen a lot, and i am not in a political enviroment where i am afraid to speak out.
Emmons has always been a great company, so lets hope that this was a genuine mistake.
Did you ever get an opoligy, or a phone call???

[Jeff Hyman]

Charles,

I truly feel for you on this one. If they jacked you around after they had your $303 what made you think paying the balance would help? Did you get anything in writing to confirm the order?... and I'm not talking about email. With a company like Emmons you'd think you wouldn't need to do this... but when it comes to spending that kind of money something in writing is always a good idea. Please do not take this reply as a bash to you in anyway. You're a victim in the worse senerio. Historically, BS like you received means a company is having severe cash flow problems. It would sure be nice if an Emmons rep would post a reply here... if for nothing else just to save their reputation.

[Larry Bressington]

I agree jeff totally! You also sound educated in where legalities are concerned.

[Jeff Hyman]

Larry,

Every person brings something to the table. My expertise is not PSG. I've run many businesses in my lifetime, and have learned that good agreements are good for all parties. Couple other words of wisdom. Good fences make good neighbors... and ... Don't hire family, friends, friends of family, or family of friends. When you need to fire your sister-in-law, Thanksgiving diner just ain't the same :-) I enjoy this forum because of the overly qualified musicians that I learn so much from. Dam I like this place!

Charles,

I'd be on a plane to Emmons with a tight roll of Nickels if I was in your shoes. Part of agreements is to help protect the other party from getting a good butt kickin'... but I'd still like to hear their side.

[Larry Bressington]

Thats awsome advice jeff, i agree with the family and freinds hiring, those potatoes never do taste the same at thanksgiving!
I have a small buissness, and i will always remember that advice if ever grows past me and my assistant!
P.s I like hangin out here too, when i have time, i'm a bit of a joker on the side. I'm sure they are getting sick of me by now

[Jeff Hyman]

Larry,

I'm telling you man... I've made some hum-dinger mistakes along the way, including being a victim as Charles is... but that was many years ago. The older I get, the more I realize how much more I need to learn.

[Larry Bressington]

The older the violin, the sweeter the music!

[Danny Bates]

Charles, The name of the game in this country is a good lawyer. Get a good lawyer and you may soon own that company. Just their legal fees will be much more than refunding your money or building your guitar. Then, you (and your lawyer) could sell the Emmons name for some big bucks.

I can't believe this company can be so dishonest. It's no wonder Buddy Emmons doesn't play one anymore. Such a shame a great instrument company like Emmons has no business sense.

I think there may be some violation of federal law if you sent the money through the postal service.

The first thing I'd do is call the district attorney (in their home town) and see about filing fraud charges.

If none of the above work... a visit with the roll of nickles just might do the trick.

[CrowBear Schmitt]

this is'nt the first time this has happened
remember that dutch steeler a couple of years back ?

[Greg Cutshaw]

I ordered a new Steel through Frenchy years ago from a major steel manufacturer that's still in business, that never got delivered. Frenchy held my deposit and glady refunded my money many months after the due date. I received excuses like "we painted it but the lacquer ran", "we really don't do that many lacquer bodies", "we just need a few more weeks" etc. After missing the delivery date by 6 months AND hearing that a few "pros" had received guitars that were ordered long after mine I gave up on the whole situation. After all this, the steel guitar manufacturer called me directly and asked me "why don't you want this guitar, it has just been laquered and it's drying as we speak". During this phone call I was being pressured and depicted as "backing out of the deal".

I never mentioned this to anyone until now but just want to point out that these problems do exist. I have had problems with delivery dates and quality issues with other major steel vendors and was able to work those out quickly.

It's true that many buyers will chime in about how great a given vendor is or how this particular vendor was great to them. It's still pretty bad if even only one customer a year gets treated this way even though 20 others might defend the same manufacturer based on their own positive experiences.

No doubt it's safer to go to a dealer and buy a guitar from stock or just pay the dealer when the guitar arrives at his showroom than to put a deposit on a guitar and then pay for the whole thing when it is "ready to ship".

Greg

[Wayne Wallett]

A good friend of mine ordered a LeGrande III over a year and a half ago and got the same song and dance. Was told it would be shipped, wasn't, was told formica got cracked and had to be redone, every excuse under the sun. He paid the full guitar price up front and it took well over a year until he got the guitar finally. Buyer Beware....

[Chris LeDrew]

This is just an unbiased observation. I do not wish to take sides in a situation of which I have little knowledge. But I will say that after visiting the Emmons booth at the ISGA this past September, it seems that Emmons is pretty much a one-man operation with a few family members helping out. It would seem to me that their "rep" would also be the owner, builder, etc. If this is the case, it should be made known to potential customers so expectations can be lowered. I think most of us would assume that Emmons is a major steel builder in the business. I could be wrong about all of this, but that's the impression I got.

I will say that I feel for you, Charles. It's really too bad you've got all your money tied up in this deal. You must be frustrated. Hopefully it gets resolved soon.

[James Quackenbush]

There are situations like this in this business, and maybe there should be some stickies on the forum that are called " Buyer Beware or Be Happy " ......This way anybody that had a problem with a company can at least have a fighting chance of knowing what to expect from the various companies ....Along the same lines , there should also be within the same section a group of vendors that folks had a GOOD experience with .....This will help anyone looking to purchase pedal steel items ....For the most part , the industry has some great people in it , and they do their best to help out , or at least explain a situation of lateness ..... When I read so many bad luck stories about Emmons, I have to look at the same ole song and dance and put 2 and 2 together, and realize that thier excuses are the same ones over and over again ..... To me it's just not worth doing business with a company that has more excuses than pedal steels no matter how good thier steel sounds .....Customer Service is VERY important .. .....Jim

[Ray Montee]

I purchased my Emmons over 3 decades ago. It arrived with a broken G# string and a shorted out neck selector switch. I notified them of the problem and within moments, I rec'd the replacements.

Never had a problem with this g'tar since BUT........

From the on-going stories that KEEP SURFACING over a period of years, about how the Emmons people choose to do business, I think it is only fair for them to know, I'll NEVER go to EMMONS GUITAR CO., for a replacement of my current guitar. There's too many others out there, that one could acquire without all of the hassel one seems to encounter when trying to do biz with Emmons'.

Such a shame. A GREAT NAME! Once, a GREAT GUITAR!

[Don Brown, Sr.]

Hey Charles D., You had said:

I checked the forum and Gary Preston said he was going to pick his up on July 17.

But! When did Gary order his, as opposed to when you ordered yours? Also, were they both the same model. Meaning, single neck, double neck, etc?

All of the above means a whole lot, and there could (possibly) be the answers within those questions.

Keep a positive outlook, and we'll hope all ends well for ya. However, I'd definitely have made a trip (long before this) to see how things were coming along, live and in person.

[Bo Borland]

This is not the first time a bad experience like this has been posted. I know of a friend who waited almost 2 years for his new D10. The end plates were pitted and the fit and finish was not what I expected and the old style RKR lever angle iron flag it still very uncomfortable.
But for every bad experience told there are other positive ones. It does play and sound very good.

The alternative is to either buy a new Emmons from a dealer who has one in stock (it seems that they, like some pros, get their new steels delivered faster than the rest of us and with good reason... they sell more product for the builder), or buy a late model used one that a dealer will set up with your copedant.

Or you could just order a new Derby!! tell Charlie that Bo sent you!

[Damir Besic]

I understand there is many problems bilders have to deal with, many of them are just a single man operation and many of them use the cash from new orders to finish the older ones. The best thing is to buy a guitar from the dealer, you can see and try out the instrument , pay for it and take it home, you know what you have and you don`t have to wait 3 years to get it. To make a steel guitar takes some time and I would imagine 1-2 years wait would be ok. But, simular stories about Emmons company (wich many think is some big business when is in reality basement shop with one man operation) I heard many times before. I myself tried to order some parts from them to fix one of my p/p Emmons guitars I had, never managed to get to talk to anyone or got any responds to my emails, I finaly sold the guitar and decided not to have anything to do with Emmons again...

Db

[Jeff Hyman]

Danny,

Lets dig into this lawyer issue a little. Here's exactly what I'd do if I were foolish enough to pay full price in advance of receiving anything.

1. Create a letter to Emmoms, with no anger, but to the point, that you want your $$$ back as a result of their default of the agreement. Keep it short and sweet.
2. Send it Certified Mail, Return Receipt Requested.
3. Here's the important part: At the bottom of the letter put a Cc: to your attorney, States Attorney, Governor, local and State police... showing the Certified Mail number and they all go out Return-Receipt-Requested.

When anyone receives a Certified letter, blood rushes to their head as they open it up. Its not a good feeling and the recipient knows you mean business.

Now... the problem that will bite Charles in the butt is he has no written agreement or purchase order. If Emmons retains an Attorney, they'll just say we never promised an exact delivery date... weither they did or not. I assure you, when its all said and done, the lawyers will end up with all the money. Been there, done that. This is not the perfect environment to retain an attorney IMHO. I'd only do so if money was not a consideration.

Lesson: When a large amount of money is at stake, put something in writing and all parties sign it. It accualy prevents needing a lawyer.

[Ford Cole]

Hey Charles..I'm in the same boat with a builder in Texas. Very frustrating!

[Jeff Hyman]

For those considering a new PSG... consider letting John Coop take an older model and turn it into a great work of art. No waiting for parts, he does the work, and knows what the heck is going on. I like him and would recommend him to anyone. Other option is only buy one that's already built. Waiting for a custom order seems to have risk.

[Luke Morell]

Charles, I went through the same thing waiting on my Emmons sd10, A year and a half to get it. I ordered mine through a dealer because I had a trade in. The store tried getting answers and had problems getting straight answers too. If I called they said the dealer would have to call. Finally it arrived, end plates are a little pitted, but I can live with it. Plays GREAT.I often wonder if Ron Jr.is just not into steel guitars. After Ron Sr. passed away he got this company dumped in his lap and didn't really want it.

[Danny Bates]

Great ideas here. Very sad story.

I am not a lawyer. But, I think if Emmons is a corporation, they can only be sued for their assets. The Emmons name (and every guitar part they own) is a huge asset. I was thinking a lawyer might take the case for a percentage.

Maybe they are bonded and insured and a settlement is easy...Who knows?

Maybe they are planning a bankruptcy? If they are, I think a fraud case can't be treated like a normal debt.

Who knows what's really going on? Like I said, I'd contact the district attorney first. This may not be his first rodeo with these people and a visit from the local Sheriff (and the threat of the owners going to jail), might get the Emmons people off their asses and make them build his guitar... or maybe they can borrow the money and pay him off?

To me, it's obvious he was suckered into sending the remaining balance. If a person is sitting on a jury and hears his testimony, they just might believe it too. This could be very bad for Emmons, because if they can't pay, things could get real nasty.

[Larry Bressington]

I Think charles will agree NOW that he should have bought a stock model, but who wants to play a steel of brand,after you have, had serious problems with customer service. Where were all the phone calls from Emmons?? You always contact the customer in buissness, before the customer contacts you, when you have delays on your end! No matter what!!
Charles,
Buy yourself a nice SHO-BUD, you wont regret it!