"He's Pretty Good"

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 2 Oct 2008 10:27 am

I get it Bill.
You don’t have Capo Phobia! We have a Capo Fetish.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 2 Oct 2008 12:04 pm

Bo Legg,

Given to fads! True to a propensity to try everything once. Some even sample unknown fluids trying to identify the contents through their taste buds. Absolutely fearless of what could happen as a result. As for guitar fads, or gadgetry such as capos, electronic noise makers, R&R gear, truckloads of speakers, and amplifiers,that have merged into what was once five piece bands that truly entertained while playing country music, my hopes are dimmed on the future of country music per se. I was so excited when Kelly Pickler posed as a country singer. She appeared on Regis and Kelly's show this morning. I didn't bother to count the half dozen or so guitarists surrounding her as if they were bees, and she was the queen. NO STEEL GUITAR was in view! I turned and walked away! What a waste of a super talent. Those young guitarists are to be credited for their part in whatever message they are bringing to the music scene. The fads will come and go, just as the cowboys did while toting six shooters. If you are fond of R&R, allow me to keep to the country side of things, where steel guitars can be heard. And take your capos with you.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 2 Oct 2008 1:46 pm

Bo Legg,

Your profile states that you hate everthing. I think that is how it reads, without double-checking. I hope you are just kidding around. Those players whom I've met to date, find the steel guitar to be something to grow more fond of as time passes. If your dislikes include your steel guitar, I'm not up to acknowledging such claims as realistic.

Mark Durante · Post by **Mark Durante** » 2 Oct 2008 4:37 pm

Even though Bill's threads usually have nothing whatsoever to do with steel guitar I find them a curious study of human nature and suprisingly entertaining.
Now, do I take the high road here or the low road?
Hmmmmm, I better go

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 3 Oct 2008 12:00 am

Mark,

I purchased one of those old Fender nonpedal steel guitars back in the 70's. Mine was a double eight stringed creation. Yours looks the same. There are multitudes of players across the land who get to play certain instrumentals on those straight eights. If I jump on the Spanish and swing into a fast version of; "Under The Double Eagle", the going gets rough on the no pedals steel. I have a feeling that the Fender dbl. eight is not your main instrument. To recall other features that held me back, one in particular, I do recall. Those two top chromatic notes found at the top of the 10 strings tuning, were missing. That bridge uncrossed, plus those two
A&B pedals missing, produces a second bridge to get over. Fender made sixes and eights, that would be difficult to ascertain from a distance. Counting tuning keys if a view is provided, is a step in the right direction of making such determinations. That particular model is the equivalent in terms of stability, of a baby goat on a sheet of ice. It becomes too jittery when the player commences to progress, by applying bar pressure. By contrast the Fender 1000 felt like Gibraltar's stability. A player could hop on one of those, and it wouldn't dance from where it was placed. It didn't require a lot of time to make that evaluation. If you do play the 10 strings guitar tuned to E9th chromatic, complete with a standard setup, I would enjoy discussing pedal steel guitar at great length. For example, how you went about experimenting with other changes, that is, of course, knees and pedal arrangements.

Mark Durante · Post by **Mark Durante** » 3 Oct 2008 2:42 am

Bill, it's interesting to see that you can speak in plain english when you want to. I for one find it refreshing.
My Dual Pro is a D-8 and I don't find the guitar limiting at all. I could spend my whole life exploring the possibilities. I've heard many a great player such as Noel Boggs and Bobby Koefer use these.
I also play pedal steel inspired by Buddy Emmons, Jimmy Day and others.
I do think your time would be better spent discussing steel guitar with others though, (such as Pete Finney), as he and most other forumites are much better players than I.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 3 Oct 2008 4:51 am

Mark,

Thanks Mark for pointing out that I need to get my ducks in a row. I've tried to interest popular steel guitarists into an open discussion a number of times, and I will continue to do so. One thing I learned that is of value, is that musical inclinations are not directly related to mechanical inclinations. A sharp contrast to Winnie Winston's past versatility, is the player who hasn't a clue of what's going on beneath the steel. Mechanical knowledge is a prerequisite in becoming totally compatible with an instrument. I'm not aware of Pete's prowess in terms of maintaining his instrument. The fact that he is actively engaged in rehearsals with Patty Loveless, prompts me to assume that he is a driving force that is best left alone. Furthermore, he wouldn't be bothered with archaic designs. He is no doubt much more interested in those "City Lights" that Bill Anderson described in his rendition of a great country song. I can openly admit to an irresistible envy that is welling up within my wildest desires.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 3 Oct 2008 5:11 am

Once the capo goes on,the tuning is out the window.

That's as ludicrous as saying "when you put a finger behind a fret, tuning goes out the window."

All a capo does...a good one and not one of the heavy-pressure, non-adjustable crappy ones - it work exactly like a set of fingertips pressing strings to frets. Now, if you don't know how to USE one and set it in the middle of the space between frets, cranking it down hard, yes - you'll screw up your tuning.

But it's not a cap problem - it's a player problem.

Bill, are you an experienced six-string player? I wonder because when you comment on them it sounds as if you either don't play them at all or have little experience.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 3 Oct 2008 6:22 am

Of course there is little chance of fairly judging if I can find my way around on the 6 string. You live in Hermosa Beach, California. I sure wish that you could be in close proximity with Pittsfield, Ma. here in New England. Jim, I'm sure you will agree that all those fancy triads or 4 tone chords are kickers in the country field. I don't use a flat pick. Spending as much time as necessary to trim and polish a thumb pick's outer edge is the name of my game. Years ago, when Chet was the hottest picker around Nashville, I knew a young guitarist who could emulate him to a "T", believe it or not. I invited him to join me at "The Bluegill Club" one Saturday night, where the house band always shared the limelight with other musicians. You could have heard a pin drop when he played "Birth Of The Blues", just like Chet's recording. He didn't alter the configuration of the thumb picks, as I do, but he gave me my first lessons of what a guitar should sound like at close range. "Howie" was another friend,who could invariably manage to point out improper chords used in old standards melodies. To most who knew him, he was considered the very best in
using proper chord changes. As I said, my rendition of "Rocky Top" on the six string may help to convince you that I enjoy playing the instrument known as the guitar. Please keep the door open on the capo discussion, and its potential influences, depending on its location on the neck of the guitar. And BTW, I do play steel guitar. What kind of a question is ; Do you play guitar? It reminds me of the bulldog that came flying out of his doghouse
whenever he felt the faintest vibrations. He didn't want anyone invading his territory. At least I'm learning who is dropping the ball.

Steve Feldman · Post by **Steve Feldman** » 3 Oct 2008 3:33 pm

Is that a 'yes' or a 'no'?

I thought I had it there for a minute, but now I'm not sure....

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 3 Oct 2008 4:07 pm

Steve,

No player worth his salt will brag about what he can do when he puts a 60's thin-body Gibson on his knee. My answer is thus; I'm better than some, and fall short of playing at the level of others. That's my answer, and I'm sticking to it. Oh! Just for the record, I'll stick with what I'm doing.

Steve Feldman · Post by **Steve Feldman** » 3 Oct 2008 4:36 pm

I can live with that.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 4 Oct 2008 1:45 am

Steve,

How does the "Capo" issue relate to a steel guitar? Well, you might say whoever uses one, would in all probabilities learn to play steel somewhat faster than averages. If whomever is doodling with a capo, were to catch on to mixing open strings techniques on the steel guitar, bar bouncing, harmonics, mutings, pitch increases, etc., all the fairy tales about what the capo is used for would vanish. Imagine, having to submit answers to such questions as; "Do you play the 6 string guitar?" The only reason for justifying such an inquiry, would be to surmise that the world may contain multiples of 3 chord Charlies, around the globe. Another first clue is to see a gunfighter singing and holding a toy sized guitar, or a singer with a slight build, holding a prized oversized auditorium guitar. Some guitars are known to have performed perfunctory duties, such as providing a security blanket for the singers. The capo is regarded by me to be in the same class of showmanship. There are millions of melodies to choose from in working up a performance. Why is it necessary to divert the attendees attention to a weird looking clamp? I can see how it would be a conversation piece in a room full of cronies. Balancing a violin bow on the nose, or playing a guitar resting on the back, can provide additional entertainment, just as waiting to see how long it takes a capo user, to whip out the capo. Some of the extremes I've witnessed, would just have to include a guitarist who kept his back to the audience while backing a major artist in Copake, N.Y. Of course everyone who turns on the tube, has seen guitars literally smashed all over stages. Surprisingly the smashers delight their support groups who provide them with the thousands of dollars needed to replace the exploitations. Another distant cousin of the capo entree, is swinging through the air, high above the staging area, and coasting in to"grab" a guitar. It's more of showmanship and visual entertainment. In the capo related tuning issue, it's interesting to note that the writer takes note of the pressure exerted by the capo, but avoids mentioning the double stretching that occurs when the fingers depress the strings for the second time above the capo. Common sense dictates that string stretching RAISES the pitch of the string.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 4 Oct 2008 6:20 am

Bill the question was based on your conflicting statements - you "claim" to know your way around Atkins-style playing, then make a statement no experienced playr would make - that a capo somehow throws tuning out the window.

Like the following poster said - "is that a yes or no"? It has nothing to do with "invading territory" - it has to do with someone making statements that are flat wrong.

And can you possibly answer a question without going into endless tripe that has nothing to with what was asked?

I'll answer for you. Apparently not. Every answer or statement is buried in your carefully-crafted personal image - the message being far less important than the presentation. No one gives a rat's behind about how you polish a thumbpick, Bill - and no one asked. And if that was a roundabout way of saying "yes" (including your geographical references - more irrelevant tripe no one wants to read but you) please do us all a favor - get to the point. I think it's very obvious no one is impressed by your wordy ramblings...you've burnt everyone out.

I'll analyze the response this way: If you DO play 6-string, you apparently do not know much about the technical workings of the instrument.

(shuddering at the thought of what's coming in response - more name dropping and irrelevant anecdotes lading to nowhere...).

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 4 Oct 2008 8:18 am

Jim,

Reba sang that song about business up in Massachusetts. It put everyone in a good mood over here in New England. When I played steel in a band called "SILVER SPUR", our bandleader met a country singer from the state of Vermont. I have cassette tapes of "Debbie" singing "If you're ever in New England" in our band. I immediately rated her voice as one equal to Reba's. Another close friend of mine whom I've backed on occasion, on Spanish and steel, told me that her all-girl band once played in every country music nightclub in California. She offered me proof when I looked at her with disbelief. Why must you grow weary when facts are placed upon the table? Unless you are willing to run the gamut on particulars, such as detuning, not much of anything can be said to add credence to the concept. I've noted that a LAYMAN soon departs, and moves on to easier and lesser problem areas of study. I value and appreciate your responses, even though they appear to contain a form of intimidation, particularly the degradation highlighting what I can't do. Don't you think that there might be a few things that I can do?

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 4 Oct 2008 9:31 am

Oh, Bill.

Reba, Debbie, and another anecdotal blather is again, irrelevant. I keep telling myself you actually have something important to say, but either are too stubborn to step outside a faux-personality created for internet use or just don't know how.

Let's try being REAL simple.

Request: Without extraneous anectodal information, please state in clear technical terms how a properly-placed, adjustable-tension capo affects the tuning of guitar any differently than a finger (or fingers) depressing a string to contact a fret.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 4 Oct 2008 10:12 am

Jim,

I've got a few commitments to fulfill. I'll blaze a trail come morning, concerning the frills associated with stage presences. The "capo" not the least of all, will be the subject matter. I had referred earlier to the absence of perfectly tuned steel guitars, and not a single comment came back via the S.G.F. You're requesting from me to keep to the point by giving straight answers. A little squirming to do the same for me would be appreciated.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 4 Oct 2008 11:35 am

A little squirming to do the same for me would be appreciated.

uhhh - let's see,you want me to "squirm" to wait for an answer to a question regarding a dubious technical claim. You've been asked a few times to just give a straight answer. Yet you refuse to so, and at the same time want the person who asked the question to "squirm"?

Your roundabout avoidance of giving straight answers, your knack for injecting irrelevant personal anecdotes into your non-answers, and your continued attempts to spin the subject into an odd, twisted attempt to discredit the asker have lowered your credibility in my eyes to zero (which I'm sure makes no difference to you, as it's apparent your posts are meant for your personal entertainment).

Don't bother to answer. There would be no point, as your answer, instead of containing factual information, would be just more aimless keyboard noodling. You hijacked your own thread, then got cornered and apparently are at a loss. Don't squirm on my account - you don't HAVE an answer, so don't bother to take another day to try to fabricate one. Unless someone else wants it it'd be a waste of your time - because I'm not interested in music tech fiction.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 4 Oct 2008 12:32 pm

To anyone interested in things that go overlooked for indefinite periords, such as superficial detunings, I know just the party to assist me. He will cheerfully partake in a series of scientific measurements that will satisfy all parties. The common detuning of the steel guitar has had book length reviews from bygone days. The problem defied the best in the business, and it's still going strong. Even if the detuning did not exist, I doubt if one steel player out of a hundred count, could maintain a perfect parallel with the bar to all the frets. It really doesn't matter, (luckily) due to the usefulness of bar slurring to get the effects so necessary in capturing a style, that moves a player to the head of the class. I'm hearing much more of bar slurring, even from the U.K., and it's a welcome change, I might add.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 4 Oct 2008 12:36 pm

Train kep'-a-rollin', all night long...

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 4 Oct 2008 10:00 pm

Steve, you da' man.

Wasn't it fascinating...in a sick sort of way...that the response post was exactly as predicted.

Mr. Hankey, I congratulate you. You are the definition of consistency, and this thread is one of the best examples I've seen. A thread started...then changed..and filled with off topic posts, all by the same person.

I'm commenting on the content, by the way. Or total lack thereof.

Larry Bressington · Post by **Larry Bressington** » 4 Oct 2008 10:18 pm

Is he!

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 5 Oct 2008 4:57 am

There is a definite lack of constituenies participating in debatable issues of late. The calculating Fender fancier from Hermosa Beach, serves up lingo with a tinge of animosity. In the same breath his cocksure readiness projecting manifestations of exactingness, invariably overrides his head of steam to bewilder an adversarial client who may wander near his concepts. He's having a problem accepting what every musician has learned, and for some unknown reason refuses to accept a common sense deduction. When I stated that a capo produces a detuning affect , he, (Jim) waxed disputatiously. From there, true to a propensity to engage in profuse diatribes, I became a subject of ridicule; at least according to all accounts and proclivities relating to the subject. A much greater
detuning example occurs if a player reaches over the "nut" and depresses the 3rd string after it is set to ringing its familiar "G" note.

Andrew Kilinski · Post by **Andrew Kilinski** » 5 Oct 2008 5:44 am

This topic is pretty good.

Pete Finney · Post by **Pete Finney** » 5 Oct 2008 6:14 am

This topic is pretty good

.
Which one???

Eavesdropping on strangers conversations at the grocery store? Making laughably wrong (and easily disproved) statements about pro players not ever using capos (and digging yourself in deeper and deeper when called on it)? Reba and Debbie in New England? Of course there's plenty more to choose from...