new member/pickup help

Jayson Makar · Post by **Jayson Makar** » 1 Oct 2008 9:37 am

Hello there, I thought it was time to finally break the silence. I have been lurking here daily for the past several months, and finally got around to joining. I just wanted to express my thanks to all of you who contribute their time and expertise to this wonderful forum, it has been a huge help in getting me on my feet since starting the instrument in January. So, thank you for being a great community!

Now to the second order of business. I recently picked up a National double 8 console, and was hoping someone could help me revive the guitar. It has the old screw-on output for which I have amphenol type adaptor. I am getting very little sound once I have it plugged into an amp, although I am getting a bit of a signal, just very quiet. I have a feeling that the pickups are probably fine, but I am not sure how to test this. Is it possible that the problem could be with the pots/cap/switcher? Can anyone help to diagnose/or pinpoint where the problem may be? I don't have any previous experience with this sort of thing, but would really like to gain some amount of expertise as my vintage steel collection is growing at an astounding rate...

Thanks again,
Jay

Rich Hlaves · Post by **Rich Hlaves** » 1 Oct 2008 10:30 am

Hi Jayson,

Sounds like a nice guitar. I would suggest you first clean all the pots and switches with Caig DeOxit D5. If some grime and goo is causing your signal loss this will do the trick. Since the whole guitar is very weak, I think your trouble is in electronics. You will have to remove them from the body to spray the cleaner-lube inside.

It is also possible that the little bump of solder in the middle of your screw in connector is worn on the guitar.

Short of that it could be PUPs. The Nationals PUPs are difficult to work on so maybe our resident PUP guru Rick Aiello may chime in. You can test the pick up by disconnecting them from the circuit and connection them directly to an amp using a guitar cord with one end removed and a couple of aligator clips attached or jumpers.

If you don't solder well, I would recomend you try the cleaning and if that doesn't get her going, take it to a tech that is experienced in vintage electric guitars.

Best,

RH

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 1 Oct 2008 1:23 pm

The DeOxit stuff is available from Antique Electronics if you don't find it locally ( tubesandmore.com )

Jayson Makar · Post by **Jayson Makar** » 2 Oct 2008 10:53 am

Thanks for your replies, Rich and Bill. I found a couple local electronics suppliers that carry Caig Deoxit, so I will give that a shot. I opened up the guitar yesterday out of curiousity, pretty amazing how it all fits together, and not alot of room in there! I'll let you know how the stuff works. Rich, you also mentioned that little solder bump on the screw -in connector. It looks to me like that "bump" may have been knocked off, it sits fairly flush with the rest of the unit. Is it possible to just solder another on, if it is indeed the problem? I would like to try these fairly simple fixes myself first, before going to any drastic measures.

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John Bushouse · Post by **John Bushouse** » 2 Oct 2008 11:59 am

I have a National Electric Hawaiian (circa 1936/7). I am the second owner, and for over 4 years I've been keeping it totally original. However, I got tired of the anemic sound of the pickups, the crackling of the pots, and the amphenol connector. So, I sent the pickups to Rick Aiello for recharging and I'm having my local tech replace all the pots and wires and put in a 1/4" jack in a more natural position. I decided that the guitar is meant to be played, and "totally original" doesn't mean that much as far as value with this guitar.

So in a roundabout way, I suggest you do what I'm doing

Rich Hlaves · Post by **Rich Hlaves** » 2 Oct 2008 12:51 pm

Jayson, you are on the right track. From the pic you posted the center of your amphenol connector looks worn concave, hard to tell in the pic. Yep a little bump of solder there can work wonders. Careful with the heat.

John, Sometimes if you want to continue playing the instrument you have to replace a few pieces. I would try cleaning the pots first 'cause the DeOxit usually does the trick. PUPs are another issue and a Zapping doesn't hurt a thing. I have a set of Rick's Nibros in my National Chicagoan (screw on amphenol). Wonderful little magnets. I saved the originals for posterity. If it were me I would leave the amphenol alone on your guitar or make sure it can be reinstalled but that's just me.

My '47 New Yorker is just a little weak in the magnet department however Rick A. suggested leaving it alone as that PU is a bugger to take apart without damage. Tabs to break off, coils to be damaged etc. I adjusted the pole pieces and made it very playable. It also needed a pot cleansing when I bought it. The screw on amphenol is still there and works OK for me with a special cord or an adaptor. That one mounts on the audience side however.

Best,

RH

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 2 Oct 2008 4:54 pm

The Amphenol connector just needs a new "blob" of solder on the center contact. It gets flattened out from screwing the cord on & off , because its only soft solder. Sometimes the end of the cord needs the same help.

Jayson Makar · Post by **Jayson Makar** » 2 Oct 2008 6:11 pm

I just wanted to update a bit, I managed to pick up some Deoxit-- that stuff should be called "miracle in a bottle"!! I used the spray on my crackly old Oahu, and she's now sounding beautifully clear. I still need to address that amphenol blob, but am feeling confident that you have led me in the right direction. If the blob fails, I will definitely not hesitate to replace the electronics. Thanks so much for all of your advice!

PS: If there is anyone in the Vancouver area that needs their pots cleaned, free free to give me a shout!