"He's Pretty Good"

Pete Finney · Post by **Pete Finney** » 30 Sep 2008 7:47 am

I did NOT misquote you, you said those exact words (though of course you haven't come close to actually living up to them, but it's never too late...).

By the way, you might consider actually taking responsibility for your own statements rather than just accusing others of misquoting you. It would be the "man thing" to do, ya know?

You could find the original thread the quote comes from in a few seconds if you used the "search" function here, but I did if for you.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... bor+fellow

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 30 Sep 2008 8:12 am

There is a lot of filtering going on between sending and receiving a compliment, or as the late Paul Newman said in one of his films, "What we have here is a failure to comunicate".

I recently gave a sincere compliment to a forum member for one of his work products. My wording was apparently misconceived by him because I used the terminology of "above average", which he construed as an equivalent to "acceptable tone", a jocular term from other sources.

I just want to reinforce that my endorsement of that player is for real!

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 30 Sep 2008 8:45 am

Hey, Bill ....

....case closed.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 30 Sep 2008 9:17 am

Pete,

Temper tuning that originated outside of New England,(I'm quite sure) created a big ado about nothing. Touted again and again, but always with a different twist. A little tweak here, and a little tweak there would overcome the problems of cabinet drop. What a bunch of baloney! Referring to a quote from another thread is a form of duplicity, or misleading to say the least. The justification of making such a profound statement is easily understood. I take a limited amount of bullying before the benefit of doubt starts to touch on sensitive issues. What does this have to do do with this thread? Only that it makes a great deal of sense to resist following along with poor habits, and yes, wearing out frets by grinding metal on metal is another pet peeve of mine. I prefer the Bigsby lever.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 30 Sep 2008 9:28 am

Barry,

I don't have a clue what Chet is doing. He's doodling, probably with another's guitar. He designed a thin-body acoustic guitar, which he played with NO capo. His style of playing did not involve capos. I never could understand why Chet never played the steel guitar. Does anyone here on this forum have information explaining why he had no interest in its beautiful tones?

Dave Burr · Post by **Dave Burr** » 30 Sep 2008 9:36 am

Bill said;

In actuality, there isn't a shred of evidence that illustrates advanced lead players using a "CAPO" to back singers on or off stages.

and

I would greatly appreciate viewing some clips of champions such as Leon Rhodes, Atkins, Travis, or whomever in their class of pickers resorting to "capo" usages.

and

I don't have a clue what Chet is doing. He's doodling, probably with anothers guitar. He designed a thin-body acoustic guitar, which he played with NO capo. His style of playing did not involve capos.

You asked for it Bill. Here's a clip of Chet using a CAPO on the very guitar that you said he didn't use one on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8590o8A4iU8

Respectfully,
david burr

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 30 Sep 2008 10:03 am

Bill Hankey wrote..

Bo Legg, That "avatar" would be best "suited" for an expensive glossy pages magazine advertising a particular brand of donuts. It suggests a "rub" by "immersing" conjectures into serious exchanges. "CAPOS" are not a "MAN" thing. They're not cute.. on the contrary,they are rather distracting from the element of professional stage presences. The ladies who are featured "guitarists" find capos to be a necessary support system.

Bill, this avatar was my second choice.
I couldn't use the first one for obvious reasons. It depicted me WHIPPING OUT MY MANHOOD and using it for a CAPO.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 30 Sep 2008 10:15 am

Dave Burr, I concur.

Bill Hankey said:

I don't have a clue what Chet is doing.

You've got that right!

I don't have a clue what Chet is doing. He's doodling, probably with another's guitar. He designed a thin-body acoustic guitar, which he played with NO capo. His style of playing did not involve capos. I never could understand why Chet never played the steel guitar. Does anyone here on this forum have information explaining why he had no interest in its beautiful tones?

Bill, to answer your above question, Chet never took up the steel because, in his great wisdom, he knew he would have had to deal with you and your inane posts on the Forum.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 30 Sep 2008 10:27 am

Dave B.,

Atkins depicted as a capo user is pure nonsense. I've seen him play in person, and I interviewed him for the Country Music Newspaper in the eighties. We discussed The Bigsby Lever and steel guitarists that were remarkable for different reasons. Singing with crutch capos were strictly for pitch advantages that enhances singer's voices. Let's be reasonable, some top guitarists follow Chet's example, while others use no capo depending on variations of voice pitches while singing the same lyrics to the same song. It was my intent to point out that I'm not aware of Chet using capos in his multitudes of recordings for RCA. Instrumental recordings,( please don't confuse the issue) were quite different.

Dave Burr · Post by **Dave Burr** » 30 Sep 2008 10:40 am

Ok Bill, you can split hairs or "explain it away" all you want. Bottom line is that YOU stated;

In actuality, there isn't a shred of evidence that illustrates advanced lead players using a "CAPO" to back singers on or off stages.

I posted a link that there was, in fact, a "shred" of evidence that there are players that do and that Chet is indeed one of those players (albeit it wasn't the norm for him). Bottom line, a "real" player is going to do what best suits the song... As they should.

I'm done.

Respectfully,
david burr

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 30 Sep 2008 10:44 am

Barry,

No, Barry! I think the question may never be answered by a layman. Neither will Jerry Byrd's reasons for vacating the much touted Music City, be satisfactorily explained.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 30 Sep 2008 10:52 am

David,

Like 10,000 to one in favor of no capo. I'm not surprised that you'd prefer dropping the subject.

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 30 Sep 2008 11:12 am

The manly thing to do is to admit when your wrong Bill.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 30 Sep 2008 11:27 am

Bo Legg,

If you are talking concepts, wrong is just a figure of speech. Do you realize that multiples of wrongs can be transformed into rights? I've known some. I'll keep going slow and steady on the capo issue.

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 30 Sep 2008 11:40 am

What part of wrong don't you understand?

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 30 Sep 2008 11:45 am

Bill, IMO, you're doing yourself a disservice by not admitting you are wrong on this. Continuing to be obstinate in the face of overwhelming proof just makes you look even worse. Time to move on. I'm done.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 30 Sep 2008 12:02 pm

Barry,

I'm beginning to wonder what's under that helmet. When I said the cream of the crop guitarists do not use capos when backing such acts as Mel Tillis, George Jones, Conway Twitty, Merle Haggard, Buck Owens, Johnny Paycheck, etc., that was the crux of my message. I know what impresses me when I see major artists. If I saw Leon Rhodes clamp on a capo, I'd probably switch the channel.

Pete Finney · Post by **Pete Finney** » 30 Sep 2008 1:28 pm

Okay, so we've got a video posted here of Chet Atkins using a capo (no big surprise to those who live in the real world). Then AFTER that we have:

Atkins depicted as a capo user is pure nonsense

And then, from later in the very same post:

Let's be reasonable

That may be the single funniest thing I've ever seen on the forum!

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 30 Sep 2008 1:58 pm

Pete,

I challenge you to give some creditability to the capo by explaining precisely why they are used. Thanks...Beyond that, let's talk steel guitar for a bit.

Bo Borland · Post by **Bo Borland** » 30 Sep 2008 2:14 pm

A couple of statements;

A capo is a tool, sometimes used to cover up a lack of musical knowledge.

A good craftsman will use a tool to his advantage.

Obviously capos are often used by some moderately talented guitar spankers to play the only chords they know and yet still play in any key.

If Mr. H can't hear why any top level guitar player would use one to achieve a certain musical effect, all the explainations in the world would
only cause him to become more disputatious.

Pete Finney · Post by **Pete Finney** » 30 Sep 2008 2:16 pm

I'll pass, Bill; the use of a capo has all the "creditability" (!) it needs without my help. And since you know more on the subject than Chet, Jerry Reed, Tony Rice and Vince Gill combined there's obviously nothing for you to learn...

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 30 Sep 2008 2:17 pm

Allow me, Pete. A capo can be used for several different reasons. For beginners, it is both a crutch, in that it allows the beginner to play in several keys without learning so many chord shapes. And, with the properly diligent teacher, the capo ais the student in learning the fingerboard. In other words, if the student has his capo on the third fret, and using chord shapes from the key of "G," he will learn the notes in the key of Bb that much faster.
The more experienced player will use the capo to allow open strings to ring out against fretted notes, especially in keys that can't use an open e-a-d-g, or b notes as part of the desired chord. You'll often see electric players use a capo on the first fret, for this very reason. Chord voicings---Think of George Harrison's ethereal chords in "Here Comes the Sun." The song is in "G", but would not sound so light and airy if open chords were used.
In Bluegrass music, which I consider to be as rigid as classical pieces, the capo is a necessity. You would be though sub-human trying to play barre chords in the key of "B" in a bluegrass setting.
A number of classical pieces were written in the so-called "piano" keys. Classical guitarists since Segovia(yes, he used one)have used the capo to remain true to the composer's intent, rather than transpose to "E," or "A," or some other guitar friendly key.
And if you're as talented as Chet, Jerry, Tommy Emmanuel, Doyle Dykes, Tony Rice, Brent Mason, and a host of others, you can use a capo JUST BECAUSE YOU FREAKIN' WANT TO!

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 30 Sep 2008 2:37 pm

Bill Hankey wrote:Pete,

I challenge you to give some creditability to the capo by explaining precisely why they are used. Thanks...Beyond that, let's talk steel guitar for a bit.

I'll give that a shot, Bill.

There are some chord voicings that can readily be played in certain keys because some string(s) can be left unfretted to ring from nut to bridge. These voicings have, like any voicing, their own characteristic sonic effects. Capos are used to facilitate the playing of such chord voicings that are more difficult, or some actually physically impossible, to play in keys up the neck, wherein "open" strings will not work, but one desires the sonic effect of those voicings.

One might argue that the use of a "barre" finger is more of a "MAN thing" than the use of a capo.

Macho posturing notwithstanding, the dedication of the first finger to serving as a barre in seeking to play these voicings both takes it out of action for fingering individual notes and often creates anatomical difficulties that limit, at least to some degree, the potential uses of the other three fingers as well. The substitution of a capo for the barre finger frees all four fretting fingers to do as much as they could when playing in the "open" position. The capo, in effect, creates a new "open" position to be used in keys that don't lie in the un-capoed "open" position, when one wants to use the "open position"-type chord voicings, with their particular sonic effects.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 30 Sep 2008 2:45 pm

Stephen,

If Segovia was in practice, I seriously doubt if you would espy that little toy within reach called the capo. Those pickers may have the edge on Spanish, much the same as I would have on them if I sat them down to a steel guitar. I wouldn't be overly concerned unless they played both instruments, as I do. Just for the record, I wouldn't accept a capo as a gift.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 30 Sep 2008 2:54 pm

Brint,

I appreciate your input that reflects great knowledge. I can't imagine why you didn't mention the ease of playing, or the tuning problems caused by undue pressure exerted on the strings. Once the capo goes on,the tuning is out the window.